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I did think there were only two craft fitted with the Harbourmaster Engine Lee & Anne. Perhaps somebody can confirm this, also is engine type known?

 

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1 hour ago, Chris Williams said:

Just come across this:

With ANNE and LEE, diesel outboard engines were fitted, LEE having a Harbourmaster, and ANNE having a Petter PD2. ANNE and the butty BERYL were tested on the London to Birmingham run, but the journey took longer than using conventional narrowboats. In 1963, seven of the River class were sold to Thames Conservancy, together with ANNE, LEE, and BERYL.

I would like to set the record straight regarding this thread.

 

The boat in the initial post is LEE, easily identified by the shape of its engine cover - and it has a partially readable name on its stern (both points made by Paul H in post 16)

 

Only two of these motors were built for 'British Waterways' southern carrying fleet, ANNE and LEE, and neither entered full carrying service. Period traffic records indicate LEE made two round trips to Birmingham and ANNE only one including returning empty to Bulls Bridge. The butty BERYL was certainly built with a removeable cabin, and it is believed that RAY was similar in its construction although I have seen no record to confirm this.

 

The motor units did not rotate but had a 4 bladed Voith type directional propeller. Period photographs show the entire unit to be bolted to bearers that ran the length of the 'forks'.

 

Much of the quote above seems to have originated from Robert Wilson's booklet 'Too Many Boats', but is not complete in its quotation. Either way this booklet is not entirely correct, and I have the tender forms for all of the boats sold to Thames Conservancy which has a close date of 06 November 1964.   

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59 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

The motor units did not rotate but had a 4 bladed Voith type directional propeller. Period photographs show the entire unit to be bolted to bearers that ran the length of the 'forks'.

 

Much of the quote above seems to have originated from Robert Wilson's booklet 'Too Many Boats', but is not complete in its quotation. Either way this booklet is not entirely correct, and I have the tender forms for all of the boats sold to Thames Conservancy which has a close date of 06 November 1964.   

Thanks for that info.  Looking again at ANNE, I see what you mean.  Presumably almost any engine could be used.  Were they both fitted with PD2s?

I seem to remember the one I saw on the River sounded like a Petter.

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On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 13:21, Chris Williams said:

Not many people would know about them, apart from Thames users.  They were used on the River at least until the seventies.

ANNE left the River Thames in 1980 whilst LEE disposed of in 2003 

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3 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

ANNE left the River Thames in 1980 whilst LEE disposed of in 2003 

My knowledge of the river mostly ended in 1975.  Any idea what they (whoever they are) use now?

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4 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Thanks for that info.  Looking again at ANNE, I see what you mean.  Presumably almost any engine could be used.  Were they both fitted with PD2s?

I seem to remember the one I saw on the River sounded like a Petter.

The Weaver photograph of ANNE earlier in this thread looks like a Petter PD2 to me, and the photograph here of LEE is certainly a Petter PD2. I last saw LEE underway at Henley on Thames in 1997 and although it still had a Harbourmaster type unit I am sure it was powered by a four cylinder diesel.

 

photograph provided by L. Hogg collection,

1348841109_LEEwithPetterPD2visiblec1961(gallery_5000_522_138389-LHP).jpg.639fb5fb423a239341d43569e1e7ad2c.jpg 

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3 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

My knowledge of the river mostly ended in 1975.  Any idea what they (whoever they are) use now?

I bought my large Northwich motor off the River Thames last May (just above Caversham to Dukes Cut) and did not see any boats fitted with sewerage tanks. The last of the 'Blue Top' narrow boats were sold off the River Thames several years ago, but only one has been restored to something like its original appearance :captain: 

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3 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

The Weaver photograph of ANNE earlier in this thread looks like a Petter PD2 to me, and the photograph here of LEE is certainly a Petter PD2. I last saw LEE underway at Henley on Thames in 1997 and although it still had a Harbourmaster type unit I am sure it was powered by a four cylinder diesel.

 

photograph provided by L. Hogg collection,

1348841109_LEEwithPetterPD2visiblec1961(gallery_5000_522_138389-LHP).jpg.639fb5fb423a239341d43569e1e7ad2c.jpg 

Anyone know what that bar or tube, clipped to the bearer, under the steerers seat is for?  Wondering if it's for raising the drive leg, via the cable/ hawser at the far side.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

I did think there were only two craft fitted with the Harbourmaster Engine Lee & Anne. Perhaps somebody can confirm this, also is engine type known?

 

Both were fitted with Petter PD2's according to period photographs :captain:

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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

The Weaver photograph of ANNE earlier in this thread looks like a Petter PD2 to me, and the photograph here of LEE is certainly a Petter PD2. I last saw LEE underway at Henley on Thames in 1997 and although it still had a Harbourmaster type unit I am sure it was powered by a four cylinder diesel.

 

photograph provided by L. Hogg collection,

1348841109_LEEwithPetterPD2visiblec1961(gallery_5000_522_138389-LHP).jpg.639fb5fb423a239341d43569e1e7ad2c.jpg 


I like the sound of a PD2, but not enough to want to sit there for very long!

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5 hours ago, alan_fincher said:


I like the sound of a PD2, but not enough to want to sit there for very long!

I struggle to tell the difference between the sound of a Petter PD2 and a 2 cylinder Lister H series, both being a bit clattery. The sound of the exhaust will of course depend on the silencer and whether a titch or stack / tall pipe is fitted. If I had to choose one or the other I would go for the Lister as I do not like the belt driven cooling fan on the Petter.

 

Anyway the discerning engine enthusiast knows a Perkins 3HD46 (marinised D3.152) is superior when it comes to sound, although it is almost a year since I have heard one running :captain: 

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note to self....next time read the header.

 

 

Edited by NB Esk
Intellectually challenged....

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The EA  Thames do still have a barge with sewage tanks on it but its usually towed by their tug "Churn" and I think its a modern barge although I have never thought to check it out.

Its wider that a narrow boat.

On 16/4/2019 at 16:29, NB Esk said:

Anyone know what that bar or tube, clipped to the bearer, under the steerers seat is for?  Wondering if it's for raising the drive leg, via the cable/ hawser at the far side.

 

 

Looks like it could be a footrest. Sitting on a tractor seat like that with no footrest is quite tiring (ask me how I know)

Edited by magnetman

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57 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The EA  Thames do still have a barge with sewage tanks on it but its usually towed by their tug "Churn"

Thanks for that.   Seems a waste of manpower, the old one was a one-man job.  

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You could always try Barcroft's semi-immersed propellor, though from the report of its use on the L&LC, I would suggest avoiding them. They seem to have worked on the Newry Canal though.

P6116877.jpg

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3 hours ago, magnetman said:

The EA  Thames do still have a barge with sewage tanks on it but its usually towed by their tug "Churn" and I think its a modern barge although I have never thought to check it out.

Its wider that a narrow boat.

Looks like it could be a footrest. Sitting on a tractor seat like that with no footrest is quite tiring (ask me how I know)

Mmm, not sure.  If it was fixed to that bearer, you'd expect it to be the same colour, also, there's a slot just above it which is approximately the same size as the tube diameter.  

 

 

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Fair point and you could well be right. 

 

It seems an odd location for a winch handle as it would get used as a step in that position. But could well be exactly what you suggest.  

 

Isn't that slot above it a lubrication point for a chain drive to the gearbox? 

 

Eta or is it a shaft 

 

Screenshot201904181735421555605505.png

 

Edited by magnetman

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