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I suspect this is the Anne or Lee built by EC Jones of Brentford c.1960 for BWB. Fitted with Harbourmaster drop-in propulsion units - effectively large diesel outboards. Both boats now have conventional motor sterns.

 

Previous thread:

And close up picture of Lee's engine.

 

Edited by David Mack

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Yes, the boat is one of the converted river class- this image as shown-

 

918428988_RiverClass.jpg.4d6eab8f51acd59fd7c4a22cc5bd26fb.jpg

 

should be compared with Anne in a photo taken by the Weavers

 

 

44516.jpg

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It’s not specialist as apposed to bwb’s attempt at evolution.

built for short distance as prototype. Documented in a couple of books.( sorry I’m away from boat so can’t check)

no accomodation and blue tops.

in theory a good idea.

developed further in 2015 by the appearance of containers with outboards on, roaming the canal looking for trade. ( i assume)

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At least two of these boats ended up with the Thames Conservancy as sewage boats for emptying elsan stations.

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3 hours ago, rivergate said:

...is it me or is it mad that a boat museum cant identify that boat...?

Not many people would know about them, apart from Thames users.  They were used on the River at least until the seventies.

Apparently they were next to useless on the canals, but OK on the river.

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4 hours ago, rivergate said:

...is it me or is it mad that a boat museum cant identify that boat...?

I read it that they knew what it was, but were giving readers a bit of challenge to see if they could answer it.

 

Tim Lewis, sometimes of this forum, is often involved in posting those London Canal Museum archive photos - I'd be surprised if he didn't know.

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Wow - amazing pic.

 

I’d really like to know whether this was a successful design or not.  Opinions seem to vary.  The late Laurence Hogg seemed impressed, others not so much...

 

Paul

 

 

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Anne is now lived on in Oxford on the canal agenda 21 [I think that was what they are called] moorings above Jerico. She is still unpowered.

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2 hours ago, Pluto said:

A photo by Roger Lorenz circa 1969.

That's the boy alright.  Steerer totally exposed to the elements. They could go some.

I couldn't find any pics - not surprising, they were sewage tankers.

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9 hours ago, J R ALSOP said:

Anne is now lived on in Oxford on the canal agenda 21 [I think that was what they are called] moorings above Jerico. She is still unpowered.

The river class butty at Oxford is the Beryl - Anne has been fitted with a conventional counter and is in the north west.  I’m told that Anne and Beryl, the only two boats not named after 3 letter rivers were named after E C Jones (the builder)’s daughters.

 

Paul

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, Paul H said:

The river class butty at Oxford is the Beryl - Anne has been fitted with a conventional counter and is in the north west.  I’m told that Anne and Beryl, the only two boats not named after 3 letter rivers were named after E C Jones (the builder)’s daughters.

 

Paul

That’s a relief, I thought my memory was playing tricks with me again. 

Anne is a regular visitor at Whaley Bridge selling solid fuels. 

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On 13/04/2019 at 14:50, Heartland said:

Yes, the boat is one of the converted river class- this image as shown-

 

918428988_RiverClass.jpg.4d6eab8f51acd59fd7c4a22cc5bd26fb.jpg

 

should be compared with Anne in a photo taken by the Weavers

 

 

44516.jpg

The London Canal Museum’s photo is of the Lee.  Note different engine casing to Anne and the name just discernible on the stern.

 

But the boat is not converted - it was built like that, although it’s converted now!

 

Paul

 

Paul

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No shelter for steerer and wheel steering.  Very unpopular I would think.  Obviously no thought for the crew.

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25 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

No shelter for steerer and wheel steering.  Very unpopular I would think.  Obviously no thought for the crew.

There would have been little or no shelter for crews on many wide boats at the time. Also, requirements for a boat where the steerer went home at night would have been seen as less onerous than for boats on which people lived.

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3 minutes ago, Pluto said:

There would have been little or no shelter for crews on many wide boats at the time. Also, requirements for a boat where the steerer went home at night would have been seen as less onerous than for boats on which people lived.

Yes, replacement for joey boats.  They still wouldn't like the wheel steering, which turned the steerer as well.  Or sitting on the engine.

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14 hours ago, Chris Williams said:

Yes, replacement for joey boats.  They still wouldn't like the wheel steering, which turned the steerer as well.  Or sitting on the engine.

Hi Chris, wondered if you could clarify what you mean by "turned the steerer" and "sitting on the engine "?

 

We have an ex waterways tug at our wharf, which has that same method of propulsion/ steering.  It's a 360 degree "leg" which, although a total pain when manoeuvring, has no requirement for the steerer to turn in any way.

 

 

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9 hours ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Sorry not very clear but this is in a document  on e.c.Jones & son by Pam Roberts nee Jones 

Edward Hambridge also tells me he remembers testing this boat out at Bulls Bridge 

102_9687.JPG

So the manufacturers manage to call it a butty rather than a motor boat in their own advertising!

 

(And "barge" as well, which many will also argue with).

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5 hours ago, NB Esk said:

Hi Chris, wondered if you could clarify what you mean by "turned the steerer" and "sitting on the engine "?

Hi.  If you look at the photo of 'Anne' you will see that the drive unit is slightly turned out of line.  The steerer has a very basic seat on the left side of the engine and the whole drive unit turns, steerer and all.   Not sure how far the unit could turn, It seems to be limited by the huge dollies.

I have seen these on the Thames, most peculiar until you realise what they were. 

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28 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Hi.  If you look at the photo of 'Anne' you will see that the drive unit is slightly turned out of line.  The steerer has a very basic seat on the left side of the engine and the whole drive unit turns, steerer and all.   Not sure how far the unit could turn, It seems to be limited by the huge dollies.

I have seen these on the Thames, most peculiar until you realise what they were. 

Okay Chris, if you've actually come across one, I'd have to give way to that.  Odd though as any movement would be limited, as you say by the bollards, or by the width of the slot that the leg drops down.

Whats also interesting is the boat appears to carry a spare prop, reasonably easy to fit as the leg is arranged to lift up to clear fouling etc.  Also, the dial indicating the position of the propeller can just be seen, through the spokes of the wheel, on the top of the helm.

Forget the bit about the spare prop, optically challenged, too much welding.

Edited by NB Esk

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Just come across this:

With ANNE and LEE, diesel outboard engines were fitted, LEE having a Harbourmaster, and ANNE having a Petter PD2. ANNE and the butty BERYL were tested on the London to Birmingham run, but the journey took longer than using conventional narrowboats. In 1963, seven of the River class were sold to Thames Conservancy, together with ANNE, LEE, and BERYL.

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