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Trying to gauge annual costs - complete with spreadsheet!


electric_nan

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3 hours ago, electric_nan said:

 

I'm going by that most people seem to be recommending them nowadays, that and I've been on one boat with a compost and he actaully swapped the pump out for it.

Proponents of composting are vociferous, but are a small minority of boat owners. Cassette and pump out have their advantages and disadvantages. But if you are buying a second hand boat, just live with what it's got. Don't think of changing it.

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2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

 . I tried the cassette method and it was too heavy,  

That is one of my main reasons for a pump out. With an iffy back carrying a cassette out of a boat and pouring down an elsan disposal was a no no.

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38 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is one of my main reasons for a pump out. With an iffy back carrying a cassette out of a boat and pouring down an elsan disposal was a no no.

I never understand why all elsans are not set in the floor?

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4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

What are most people recommending? It looks like you are saying 'composting'. Noooooooooo!

I reckon if you did a survey of the 'best type of toilet' you would get 47.5% saying pump out, 47.5% saying cassette and 5% saying composting. People seem equally split over the two main types and are heavily biased one way or the other. We, for instance, wouldnt dream of having a boat with a cassette as the thought of lugging 25Kg of Poo solution to an Elsan point, 100 yards away when in a marina is not why I am boating.

Water tanks on boats dont freeze up if you are living on the boat. We've not had a cold winter though.

I don't think the tank itself freezing is the issue with pump-outs, more the question is, as a liveaboard, of what you do if the canal freezes? (which has happened during the previous couple of winters). Do you plough on through the ice (taking your blacking off) to go and empty the tank? (because Sod's law dictates that the day the tank is full will be the day the canal freezes). In an emergency there are a variety of options with a cassette system (public toilets?), what is the fall back on a pump-out system (a porta-potti or carrying a self pump out pipe and hand pump, which rather defeats the object of the exercise).

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2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't think the tank itself freezing is the issue with pump-outs, more the question is, as a liveaboard, of what you do if the canal freezes? (which has happened during the previous couple of winters). Do you plough on through the ice (taking your blacking off) to go and empty the tank? (because Sod's law dictates that the day the tank is full will be the day the canal freezes). In an emergency there are a variety of options with a cassette system (public toilets?), what is the fall back on a pump-out system (a porta-potti or carrying a self pump out pipe and hand pump, which rather defeats the object of the exercise).

I carry a clean, dry porta potty and have used it twice in 18 years, Next time we go to the boat I will swap it out for this which will save a lot of space https://www.popaloo.co.uk/shop/popaloo-portable-camping-toilet/

Capture.JPG

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2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't think the tank itself freezing is the issue with pump-outs, more the question is, as a liveaboard, of what you do if the canal freezes? (which has happened during the previous couple of winters). Do you plough on through the ice (taking your blacking off) to go and empty the tank? (because Sod's law dictates that the day the tank is full will be the day the canal freezes). In an emergency there are a variety of options with a cassette system (public toilets?), what is the fall back on a pump-out system (a porta-potti or carrying a self pump out pipe and hand pump, which rather defeats the object of the exercise).

Precisely. We have had winters were we have been frozen in SOLID without any movement for SEVERAL weeks. Cassette or porta potti can be moved in a whole manner of different ways to include sack truck very easily. Try putting twenty tons of boat on a sack trolley to wheel round to the solidly frozen up out of order pump out machine.

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Canal people really love toilet talk! 

 

We just viewed a boat boat this afternoon, it was another compost. That’s 2 for 2. Maybe it’s more popular than what this thread leads on.

 

I think mooring costs may even end up being close to free going by the past two viewings. They both were based in London and found it easy avoid mooring costs even in winter. We’re not looking at cruising in London but may need the occasional place to stay in larger towns/cities for work etc.

 

Good to know

 

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6 minutes ago, electric_nan said:

Canal people really love toilet talk! 

 

We just viewed a boat boat this afternoon, it was another compost. That’s 2 for 2. Maybe it’s more popular than what this thread leads on.

 

Maybe that's why they are for sale?

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20 hours ago, electric_nan said:
 and cruising throughout the year with the occasional mooring (3-4 months of the year, not in london).

 

17 minutes ago, electric_nan said:

I think mooring costs may even end up being close to free going by the past two viewings. They both were based in London and found it easy avoid mooring costs even in winter. We’re not looking at cruising in London but may need the occasional place to stay in larger towns/cities for work etc.

 

 

From these two posts, I have a feeling you dont understand 'mooring costs'.

It is totally possible to spend all year on the move as a CC'er and not pay any mooring fees wotsoever. Just dont stay in one place longer than 14 days. That is what you have probably been told in your 2 viewings. If they have said you can stay longer than 14 days in any one place then that is in violation of the terms of your license which is not good. That is a whole new can of worms.

If however you want to moor up  for 3-4 months of the year, presumably in one place - or maybe 1 month here, one month there, then many peeps use the various marinas around the system and so pay marina fees. Lots of peeps will use marinas over the winter period and so go in for Nov-Feb. Costs for this will be around £1K. Its up to you. Marinas are convenient in the deep of winter as you have access to water and lecky without worry...and somewhere to leave the car.

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I never understand why all elsans are not set in the floor?

Why would you want to disassemble the floor to get the tank out to empty it?

 

They are designed for ease of removing the tank to empty it.

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Precisely. We have had winters were we have been frozen in SOLID without any movement for SEVERAL weeks. Cassette or porta potti can be moved in a whole manner of different ways to include sack truck very easily. Try putting twenty tons of boat on a sack trolley to wheel round to the solidly frozen up out of order pump out machine.

When we are due a freeze though it is generally well forecast so you can prepare and make sure you have emptied your holding tank and filled your water tank in plenty of time. 

 

It has been almost ten years since we had a freeze that lasted more than a week or so.

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30 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

 

From these two posts, I have a feeling you dont understand 'mooring costs'.

It is totally possible to spend all year on the move as a CC'er and not pay any mooring fees wotsoever. Just dont stay in one place longer than 14 days. That is what you have probably been told in your 2 viewings. If they have said you can stay longer than 14 days in any one place then that is in violation of the terms of your license which is not good. That is a whole new can of worms.

If however you want to moor up  for 3-4 months of the year, presumably in one place - or maybe 1 month here, one month there, then many peeps use the various marinas around the system and so pay marina fees. Lots of peeps will use marinas over the winter period and so go in for Nov-Feb. Costs for this will be around £1K. Its up to you. Marinas are convenient in the deep of winter as you have access to water and lecky without worry...and somewhere to leave the car.

 

I understood you can avoid these costs by continually moving but didn’t realise it was as easy as they made out to be in cities, I’d thought you’d have to move greater distance than they had. Still the occasional mooring might be nice :)

 

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Beat me too it.

Spent a fortune (£ 4 figures) fitting it, hated it, found it would be £ 4 figures to take out and replace with a proper toilet so cheaper to sell the boat.

 

What did you hate about it if you don’t mind me asking?

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10 minutes ago, electric_nan said:

 

I understood you can avoid these costs by continually moving but didn’t realise it was as easy as they made out to be in cities, I’d thought you’d have to move greater distance than they had. Still the occasional mooring might be nice :)

 

 

What did you hate about it if you don’t mind me asking?

I was referring to the possible reason that the two boats that you have seen were for sale.

 

I would not consider composting - people say 'urgh - gallons of sewage sloshing about under your bed for a month', they don't think "urgh,10 open buckets of poo stored under the bed, gently 'stewing' for 6 months".

 

 

It cost £11,000 to remove the pump-out tank, redo the bathroom and bedroom when we changed to a cassette toilet (the only practical option)

It was 'boat-yard' rates at £50 + VAT per hour, but, when you know what you want and don't have either the time or skills to do it yourself, you have to pay the going rate for it

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30 minutes ago, electric_nan said:

I understood you can avoid these costs by continually moving but didn’t realise it was as easy as they made out to be in cities, I’d thought you’d have to move greater distance than they had. Still the occasional mooring might be nice :)

I believe you basically have to move to a new 'neighbourhood', and CRT acknowledge that in a city one 'neighbourhood' might not be very far from the next.

 

For instance: over this past winter we worked on the assumption that Leeds Dock and Leeds Basin (Granary Wharf), although only about half a mile apart, are in two different 'neighbourhoods'. The former, after all, is on the A&C, in Hunslet, LS11; the latter on the L&L, in Holbeck, LS10. So we spent 14 days in one place and then 14 days in the other, with no argument from CRT, in November and again in February.

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4 minutes ago, magictime said:

I believe you basically have to move to a new 'neighbourhood', and CRT acknowledge that in a city one 'neighbourhood' might not be very far from the next.

 

For instance: over this past winter we worked on the assumption that Leeds Dock and Leeds Basin (Granary Wharf), although only about half a mile apart, are in two different 'neighbourhoods'. The former, after all, is on the A&C, in Hunslet, LS11; the latter on the L&L, in Holbeck, LS10. So we spent 14 days in one place and then 14 days in the other, with no argument from CRT, in November and again in February.

Someone on Facebook is bitching that CRT have put them on a 6 month licence, just because they haven't traveled 20 miles in the year as CCs

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Someone on Facebook is bitching that CRT have put them on a 6 month licence, just because they haven't traveled 20 miles in the year as CCs

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about that one; we probably didn't do much more than 20 miles during stoppage season (basically Leeds to Silsden and back), but over the 12 months of our licence period I'd be surprised if we do much less than 1000.

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44 minutes ago, magictime said:

I believe you basically have to move to a new 'neighbourhood', and CRT acknowledge that in a city one 'neighbourhood' might not be very far from the next.

 

For instance: over this past winter we worked on the assumption that Leeds Dock and Leeds Basin (Granary Wharf), although only about half a mile apart, are in two different 'neighbourhoods'. The former, after all, is on the A&C, in Hunslet, LS11; the latter on the L&L, in Holbeck, LS10. So we spent 14 days in one place and then 14 days in the other, with no argument from CRT, in November and again in February.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!! That brings back memories, Holbeck was the first place I ever bobbied....................yuk!!  not as bad as Gipton,  Chapeltown or seacroft though, they were truly awful.

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23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!! That brings back memories, Holbeck was the first place I ever bobbied....................yuk!!  not as bad as Gipton,  Chapeltown or seacroft though, they were truly awful.

You weren't in Chapeltown during the period 1975 to 1981 were you? Interesting 3 part documentary about Peter Sutcliffe on BBC 4 recently, not really a hatchet job with the benefit of hindsight, but asked some very pertinent questions.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I was referring to the possible reason that the two boats that you have seen were for sale.

 

I would not consider composting - people say 'urgh - gallons of sewage sloshing about under your bed for a month', they don't think "urgh,10 open buckets of poo stored under the bed, gently 'stewing' for 6 months".

 

 

It cost £11,000 to remove the pump-out tank, redo the bathroom and bedroom when we changed to a cassette toilet (the only practical option)

It was 'boat-yard' rates at £50 + VAT per hour, but, when you know what you want and don't have either the time or skills to do it yourself, you have to pay the going rate for it

 

Yeah all makes sense, like I said in a previous post, I haven’t given much thought - I think I’d just take what was on the boat to begin with then possibly make changes later on if it’s thats much a problem. 

 

All food for thought :)

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30 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You weren't in Chapeltown during the period 1975 to 1981 were you? Interesting 3 part documentary about Peter Sutcliffe on BBC 4 recently, not really a hatchet job with the benefit of hindsight, but asked some very pertinent questions.

Afraid so, but not for much of it. I was at Castleford when he was caught, however EVERY one of us was on the case and some of the stuff we had to do because of the drunk in charge of the case beggars belief ( George Oldfield ) With hindsight of course he would have been caught earlier but as you and I know in those days bits of information and interviews were filed in different locations by different people. No computers, no cctv, no ANPR,  no DNA etc etc etc. It was moocho harder to Police in those days in my humble opinion without all the masses of paraphernalia now available to them. We did road blocks and stopped cars every sunday night without fail come rain or shine and unless it was a male, alone AND with a geordie accent we were to simply not record anything. I started in Leeds in 79 and went back there in 85 after time in Castleford and Pontefract just nicely for the miners strike ? having been across to Liverpool on standby and in the thick of the riots in Chapeltown in 81. I wish I had joined Devon and Cornwall lol!!

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