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removing paint using a scabbler


Steve Manc

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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

And yet you had yours done by an Admiral? :captain: Theres real power of command for you! :D  I'd be happy if I could talk a dockyard matey into it! :P

 

 

 

A very rare beast now though!! :(

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Hi Matt

 

When a narrowboat owner ask you to paint their boat. The owner doesn't want to take out the boats windows. They have mould growth around the window frames. What advice to remove / kill it?

 

In my case I have some paint blistering next to the frame seal and mouldy green growth.

 

What advice would you give to kill the mould pre painting?

 

Do I just chip away the rust  bubble and apply rust inhibitor?

 

Finally is it recommend to apply a frame sealer around the frame to prevent further ingress of water to the seal. Hopefully stopping further mould growth? 

 

Cheers 

 

On 09/04/2019 at 21:17, Steve Manc said:

 

What a day trying to hire a scabbler from Brandons Tool Hire. Initially I contact www.redina.co.uk . Their technical team were helpful sent me and Brandons list of tool codes which I needed to hire. Spoke to two Brandons shops and they didn't seem to know what they were.

Thankfully I found a hire shop that sells a grit disc for my 4 1/2 inch grinder. It has taken off the paint and sand down to steel.

Thanks for all comments 

20190409_174348.jpg

20190409_174353.jpg

I will finish stripping off the sand and paint today. It will have taken 10 disc which are 115mm to strip around 36 feet length by 50 inches ish wide. One thing to note the bare steel gets very hot whilst the sun is shining. This has prevented me from putting on rust inhibitor or primer until 5pm ish when the steel cooled down.

 

Matt thanks for the further tips 're cloths.

 

Hope this information is helpful 

 

Edited by Steve Manc
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2 hours ago, Steve Manc said:

 

When a narrowboat owner ask you to paint their boat. The owner doesn't want to take out the boats windows. They have mould growth around the window frames. What advice to remove / kill it?

 

I think most professional boat painters' advice would be to decline the job if the windows can't come out.

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27 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

Can we discuss facts and not what people may think?

 

 

It's advice I have heard from more than one pro painter. A full back to metal repaint, with all windows, mushroom vents and other fittings removed is the only way they can guarantee their work. 

On the other hand, as a DIYer you can choose to clean away as much rust, mould growth etc as you can around the frames, repaint and hope. It's much quicker and less disruptive, and I've done it myself. Your choice.

 

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

It's advice I have heard from more than one pro painter. A full back to metal repaint, with all windows, mushroom vents and other fittings removed is the only way they can guarantee their work. 

On the other hand, as a DIYer you can choose to clean away as much rust, mould growth etc as you can around the frames, repaint and hope. It's much quicker and less disruptive, and I've done it myself. Your choice.

 

I would tend to agree with this as if there is blistering directly around the window edges it tends to be a sign that there is rust under the window frames. Obviously you have the option to ignore these signs of rust and not remove the windows, personally I think the blistering will just reappear in fairly short order. 

Are you doing this paint job for someone else or for yourself? 

If for yourself then the chose is yours. 

If you are doing it for someone else then I personally would inform them of potential problems with this. 

The main problem IMHO is that whoever puts their name to the job will be blamed when rust reappears around the window frames. I don't think any professional painter would be happy to put their name to such a job. 

Personally I would bite the bullet and take the windows out, anything else is a bodge. 

Just my opinion given in good faith, feel free to ignore it if you wish. 

 

Quote from piperowners article 

". Rust around windows is best managed by removing the window and treating the rust with a wire brush." 

http://www.piperowners.co.uk/pipeline/painting2.htm

 

Some helpglful info here that may be of use

http://www.wesleywindows.co.uk/index.php?id=7

 

Edited by reg
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Hi guys . 

I've been looking at taking my roof back to steel as I have rust under the anti slip paint , to be able to do this over a few weeks hiring a scabbler will be costly as I would need to hire it a few times . 

I've found one on eBay what do you guys think . Here is a picture of said beastie .

 

Screenshot_20190414-090134_eBay.jpg

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1 hour ago, Greg & Jax said:

Hi guys . 

I've been looking at taking my roof back to steel as I have rust under the anti slip paint , to be able to do this over a few weeks hiring a scabbler will be costly as I would need to hire it a few times . 

I've found one on eBay what do you guys think . Here is a picture of said beastie .

 

Screenshot_20190414-090134_eBay.jpg

Personally i would plan it so you can just hire the scabbler for a day as a roof will literally take an hour or two to do ... I also looked at these before hiring, but really couldnt see the point in buying one just for one job along with the fact the hire ones are proper refina scabblers on 110volt and have  sets of 6 spindles with 6 cutters on each rather than 4 with 4 on each and the refina scabblers are well tried and tested for the job as most professional boat painters use them, but you pay your money and make your choice, I did my entire boat back to steel, but for just a roof and doing it in no hurry i would consider flap disks on an angle grinder as i used them to take the paint off the rest of the boat where a scabbler wouldnt have got in and they did an excellent job.

Rick

436.jpg

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1 hour ago, Greg & Jax said:

Hi guys . 

I've been looking at taking my roof back to steel as I have rust under the anti slip paint , to be able to do this over a few weeks hiring a scabbler will be costly as I would need to hire it a few times . 

I've found one on eBay what do you guys think . Here is a picture of said beastie .

 

Screenshot_20190414-090134_eBay.jpg

Hi Greg

 

I cannot comment on the scrabbler. 

 

See my post above 're the disc I used which are aggressive.

 

If you are unable to find them locally contact wright hire Marple. You have to purchase a backing plate for them which cost £5 ish. In my case I had to remove the grinder disc guard and a backing plate lifts off to fit new backing plate. I recommend wearing gloves. I cought my hands twice with the disc in motion. 

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54 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

Personally i would plan it so you can just hire the scabbler for a day as a roof will literally take an hour or two to do ... I also looked at these before hiring, but really couldnt see the point in buying one just for one job along with the fact the hire ones are proper refina scabblers on 110volt and have  sets of 6 spindles with 6 cutters on each rather than 4 with 4 on each and the refina scabblers are well tried and tested for the job as most professional boat painters use them, but you pay your money and make your choice, I did my entire boat back to steel, but for just a roof and doing it in no hurry i would consider flap disks on an angle grinder as i used them to take the paint off the rest of the boat where a scabbler wouldnt have got in and they did an excellent job.

Rick

436.jpg

Rick

What did you use to get where the disc grinder cannot reach?

 

Last September I did the fore deck as you have. In the places it couldn't reached  I used a 1 inch stripping knife to strip the paint. Purchased one this week, lost my other one, from Tool Station. Item number 28924 or 21904. One is 1 inch the other a 2 inch.

 

Reg, David.

're not taking windows out.

 

All comments taken on board.

Thanks

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8 hours ago, Steve Manc said:

Rick

What did you use to get where the disc grinder cannot reach?

 

Last September I did the fore deck as you have. In the places it couldn't reached  I used a 1 inch stripping knife to strip the paint. Purchased one this week, lost my other one, from Tool Station. Item number 28924 or 21904. One is 1 inch the other a 2 inch.

 

Reg, David.

're not taking windows out.

 

All comments taken on board.

Thanks

There were very few places i couldnt get to as i used the flap disk both ways round ... other than that i used a few well sharpened chisels mainly a 1/4" one and a couple of wire brushes on a cordless drill ... on my particular boat the biggest nightmare was the handrails, they took twice as long as scabbling and sanding the roof and cabin sides, all together it took me a week of very long days to prep the boat and get the first primer coat on .... as for taking the windows out its a must if you are going to use a scabbler on the cabin sides as it will "eat" aluminium window frames on contact and even a double handed one wont give you enough control to stop it happening and in my case it only added a couple of hours to the job and my boat has 13 windows!

Rick

Edited to add ... its the first boat i have painted and i did it according to Jon Barnards videos on youtube but i put on 4 primer coats, 3 undercoats and 4 top coats and 2 winters on it still looks good to me!

027.jpg

023.jpg

Edited by dccruiser
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21 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

There were very few places i couldnt get to as i used the flap disk both ways round ... other than that i used a few well sharpened chisels mainly a 1/4" one and a couple of wire brushes on a cordless drill ... on my particular boat the biggest nightmare was the handrails, they took twice as long as scabbling and sanding the roof and cabin sides, all together it took me a week of very long days to prep the boat and get the first primer coat on .... as for taking the windows out its a must if you are going to use a scabbler on the cabin sides as it will "eat" aluminium window frames on contact and even a double handed one wont give you enough control to stop it happening and in my case it only added a couple of hours to the job and my boat has 13 windows!

Rick

Edited to add ... its the first boat i have painted and i did it according to Jon Barnards videos on youtube but i put on 4 primer coats, 3 undercoats and 4 top coats and 2 winters on it still looks good to me!

027.jpg

 

Yes, its those tubular handrails that put me off repainting my roof too!

Did you find any short cuts to speed that part up?

Or any ideas of what may be worth trying?

 

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39 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

 

Yes, its those tubular handrails that put me off repainting my roof too!

Did you find any short cuts to speed that part up?

Or any ideas of what may be worth trying?

 

I started with the flap disk turning it upside down on its spindle to do the bottom parts but then i bought a roll of really aggresive abrasive paper I.I.R.C.  around 400 grit and used a 2' length at a time wrapped around the rail and just sat on ther roof pulling it up and down if that makes sense as i ... a lot also came off using the side of a chisel as a scraper just to break the paint underneath and get a start as i found on mine the paint had pooled there when they had been previously painted so was quite thick and brittle  ... either way its never going to be a quick job, but saying that i wouldnt swap the handrails for the roof rails most boats have, if i ever did it again i would start off just taking the paint off the rails one section at a time instead of attacking it as a complete job.....I did ask a number of people of other ways some suggested a finger type belt sander, but to be honest i dont think it would have been any quicker as it would have only been an advantage on the undersides whereas on top and sides the flap disk was by far the quickest.

Rick

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55 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

I started with the flap disk turning it upside down on its spindle to do the bottom parts but then i bought a roll of really aggresive abrasive paper I.I.R.C.  around 400 grit and used a 2' length at a time wrapped around the rail and just sat on ther roof pulling it up and down if that makes sense as i ... a lot also came off using the side of a chisel as a scraper just to break the paint underneath and get a start as i found on mine the paint had pooled there when they had been previously painted so was quite thick and brittle  ... either way its never going to be a quick job, but saying that i wouldnt swap the handrails for the roof rails most boats have, if i ever did it again i would start off just taking the paint off the rails one section at a time instead of attacking it as a complete job.....I did ask a number of people of other ways some suggested a finger type belt sander, but to be honest i dont think it would have been any quicker as it would have only been an advantage on the undersides whereas on top and sides the flap disk was by far the quickest.

Rick

Thanks for the advice. Its a pretty labour intensive task whichever method is used.

I had wondered if something like Nitromors paint stripper would help, although its rubbish these days, compared to what it used to be before the EU banned it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14/04/2019 at 00:45, reg said:

I would tend to agree with this as if there is blistering directly around the window edges it tends to be a sign that there is rust under the window frames. Obviously you have the option to ignore these signs of rust and not remove the windows, personally I think the blistering will just reappear in fairly short order. 

Are you doing this paint job for someone else or for yourself? 

If for yourself then the chose is yours. 

If you are doing it for someone else then I personally would inform them of potential problems with this. 

The main problem IMHO is that whoever puts their name to the job will be blamed when rust reappears around the window frames. I don't think any professional painter would be happy to put their name to such a job. 

Personally I would bite the bullet and take the windows out, anything else is a bodge. 

Just my opinion given in good faith, feel free to ignore it if you wish. 

 

Quote from piperowners article 

". Rust around windows is best managed by removing the window and treating the rust with a wire brush." 

http://www.piperowners.co.uk/pipeline/painting2.htm

 

Some helpglful info here that may be of use

http://www.wesleywindows.co.uk/index.php?id=7

 

Hi

 

I have decided to take out the windows. I plan to stay on the boat whilst painting. The boat will be out of the water in a shed.

 

I have purchased a roll of no nonsense hard floor covering  from Screwfix that decorators use. I plan to put this over the inside of the windows to stop dust etc getting into the boat.

 

The windows are channel glaze.

 

What have other people done. Any advice welcome.

 

Any tips 're getting rusted screws out. I will have to drill them out.

 

Thanks

 

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44 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

 

Any tips 're getting rusted screws out. I will have to drill them out

Refer to the link from Wesley windows I gave earlier and that you have just quoted. There is a section on window removal together with some good advice on installing the windows. 

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On 09/04/2019 at 17:45, matty40s said:

Unless you are going to start painting boats all the time, it makes sense to just hire one Steve. They arent cheap!

One set of teeth would easily do that roof. 

I paint boats, just started this years one of 4 and another 2 booked next year already so unfortunately haven't got time to take any more work on at present.

You need an assistant.

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1 hour ago, Steve Manc said:

 

 

Any tips 're getting rusted screws out. I will have to drill them out

 

Put the tip of a soldering iron on the head of the screw for a few seconds, then try unscrewing, the heat sometimes loosens them.

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Some good advice on here, but is taking everything back to bare steel really necessary?

I have anti slip on my roof and had a lot of rust underneath which was treated last year, more rust is now appearing in new places so taking this back to steel is probably the only way to sort this out.

My cabin sides on the other hand have sound but very tired paint and giving this a good sand is surely better than taking it all off as there will be more coats of paint protecting the steel.

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Hi rickent 

That's exactly my problem 

 Rest of the boat has now been sanded back and repainted . Just the roof to sort now with rust under the original anti slip .

I did a patch with the grinder with grade 24 flap discs about 2 f x 4 f  right back to steel , karust it , then coated with red oxcide. 

Takes a bit of doing.  I have a 10f x 57 f roof to do I shall keep at it .

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4 hours ago, Rickent said:

Some good advice on here, but is taking everything back to bare steel really necessary?

I have anti slip on my roof and had a lot of rust underneath which was treated last year, more rust is now appearing in new places so taking this back to steel is probably the only way to sort this out.

My cabin sides on the other hand have sound but very tired paint and giving this a good sand is surely better than taking it all off as there will be more coats of paint protecting the steel.

If the base is good just tired i guess with a good key you could overpaint, but you still need a compatible primer to your topcoat and the finish will only be as good as the previous paint ... in my case the boat had 20 odd layers of paint and touch ups so taking it back to steel was the only viable option.

When it comes to rust in a sanded finish even treated it is still going to come back as a lot of these finishes hold moisture so as you say back to steel is the best option.

 

Rick

Edited by dccruiser
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26 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

 

When it comes to rust in a sanded finish even treated it is still going to come back as a lot of these finishes hold moisture so as you say back to steel is the best option.

 

Rick

Also holds a lot of dirt and is a pig to get clean.

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