Contaminated bilge water - help please!

[magictime]

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Excellent news, well done!

 

I'm still puzzled about how diesel dripped from the fuel filter is managing to reach the bilge pump. Fuel and oil leaks on an engine are supposed to end up in the separate drip tray under the engine, which is specifically NOT fitted with a bilge pump. This ought to be a BSS fail if the bilge pump is pumping that leaked fuel overboard into the cut.

 

 

You can't really see from that picture, but the filter in question - being a pre-filter/water separator rather than the 'main' fuel filter - isn't on the engine, but sticks out from the 'shelf' just around from the stern gland greaser and directly above the same area of the bilge that the stern gland drips into. I can see why one might think it bloody odd, however, that anything with the potential to cause this issue is positioned thus. It clearly hasn't caused any issues with the BSS, but maybe this is a 'blind spot' they have.

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Perhaps he has an agglerometer mounted outside of the engines catchall?

Ooh yes, an agglomowotsit on the catchall, that's what I meant to say! Yes, I'm sure we're talking about the same thing.

[Chris Williams]

I had a fuel drip on the Lister.  A Baked Bean can underneath fixed it, and the fuel went back into the tank.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magictime said:

You can't really see from that picture, but the filter in question - being a pre-filter/water separator rather than the 'main' fuel filter - isn't on the engine, but sticks out from the 'shelf' just around from the stern gland greaser and directly above the same area of the bilge that the stern gland drips into. I can see why one might think it bloody odd, however, that anything with the potential to cause this issue is positioned thus. It clearly hasn't caused any issues with the BSS, but maybe this is a 'blind spot' they have.

 

Ah I see, thanks. A most peculiar arrangement then, in my opinion. 

 

 

[cuthound]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ah I see, thanks. A most peculiar arrangement then, in my opinion. 

 

 

 

Both shareboats and the one I currently own had agglrometers mounted outside of the engine catchall, so i put a container under them.

[Boater Sam]

So is mine and several others that I know well. Seems its OK on the BSS, never been pulled up on it.

 

Fitters are not supposed to leave leaks on any fuel component.

[magictime]

Yeah I'm really not impressed if this is down to RCR, as seems likely. God alone knows how much diesel has leaked into the bilge and, worse, been pumped overboard since that nut was left just ever so slightly loose. And I don't know what to take away from this either: on the one hand, it makes paying for a professional engine service look a complete waste of money; on the other, it shows how easy it can be to make apparently 'little' mistakes and oversights with real consequences, which is the sort of worry that makes me uneasy about going down the DIY route even with ostensibly simple things like filter changes.

[cuthound]

When I bought my boat in 2014 I got RCR to give me one to one training on servicing my boat, simply because although I used to do all of the work on my cars, years of driving company cars had dented my self confidence. The guy knew his stuff and showed me all sorts of things over and above the engine service, including draining and cleaning the agglometer, as you get 4 hours training.

 

It was excellent, and well worth the small premium over just getting them to service the engine.

 

A couple of years later, I broke my leg, so got RCR to service the engine whilst I was incapacitated. The technician was ok but refused to do anything with the agglometer so it had to wait to be cleaned when I was better.

 

With RCR the quality of the technician is very variable. 

[Mad Harold]

3 minutes ago, magictime said:

Yeah I'm really not impressed if this is down to RCR, as seems likely. God alone knows how much diesel has leaked into the bilge and, worse, been pumped overboard since that nut was left just ever so slightly loose. And I don't know what to take away from this either: on the one hand, it makes paying for a professional engine service look a complete waste of money; on the other, it shows how easy it can be to make apparently 'little' mistakes and oversights with real consequences, which is the sort of worry that makes me uneasy about going down the DIY route even with ostensibly simple things like filter changes.

If you are reasonably intelligent (and I think you are) cos you use punctuation and get your message across clearly,then get a workshop manual,read up,and trawl through old posts on CWF  on whatever you are working on,and use the expertise of members here. That's what I have done,and nobody touches my engine now except me!

[Chris Williams]

I find it strange that boats seem to have the fuel tank (if it is a tank, not just part of the hull) right at the stern.  Full - down we go, empty - blade out of the water.

Old boats had proper tanks at the front of the engine 'ole, much less effect on the trim.  As for rudder tubes going through the 'tank', what  sort of an engineer would even think of doing that.   Pointy-ended skips indeed.

[Boater Sam]

I too have no one touch my engines.

I do use a garage that I have known the manager of for many years for jobs I no longer want to do, like changing brake fluid, but as our cars now get very minimal maintenance its a rare event. Cars that do low milage are just not worth servicing regularly, run them till they fail the mot on something not easy to fix then is sold/scrapped.

But the boat is different, I need to know that everything is in order and will stay that way.

I have heard so many terrible tales about RCR that I would not use them to bail out a dingy. Some of the problems with engines from their subsidiary Key Engineering are appalling.

I build engines, done so for 47 years so I reckon I know enough to do a good job, but some of the things that I read on here worry me.

[magictime]

47 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

If you are reasonably intelligent (and I think you are) cos you use punctuation and get your message across clearly,then get a workshop manual,read up,and trawl through old posts on CWF  on whatever you are working on,and use the expertise of members here. That's what I have done,and nobody touches my engine now except me!

I don't think it's a lack of intelligence that's my problem so much as a lack of a practical bone anywhere in my body! Ask me to put up a set of shelves and I come out in a cold sweat. But I am slowly, very slowly, coming to think that some of these 'hands on' tasks might not be quite so scary as I think. Today has been quite helpful from that point of view; I feel like the missus and I have successfully got to grips with an issue without getting too stressed by it.

[Boater Sam]

When you look at some of the gormless dipsticks that are sent to fix your boat, you will realise that with a bit of help and advice you can do as well or better probably than they do, you have just done it!  

The "pro" left a leak, you found it and fixed it, does that prove the point?

[Arthur Marshall]

57 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

When you look at some of the gormless dipsticks that are sent to fix your boat, you will realise that with a bit of help and advice you can do as well or better probably than they do, you have just done it!  

The "pro" left a leak, you found it and fixed it, does that prove the point?

I've never known anyone on any of the services done on my engine touch thr agglomerwotsit. They change the oil and the fuel filter. Not much else on an air cooled Lister, which is why I usually do it myself. RCR were supposed to check the fan belt I think, and give me an overall review of the state of the beast, but as the cocky lad they sent had only been playing with boats for twelve weeks, I knew more about it than he did, and I know buggerall. They also made a mess of the farmyard with their van and when approached by the farmer, told him to f off, which didn't go down well. 

I suspect the bolt has just vibrated loose, but they probably did bung some oil and detergent in your bilge. Anyway, all is now well, which is what matters. 

[Boater Sam]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've never known anyone on any of the services done on my engine touch thr agglomerwotsit. They change the oil and the fuel filter. Not much else on an air cooled Lister, which is why I usually do it myself. RCR were supposed to check the fan belt I think, and give me an overall review of the state of the beast, but as the cocky lad they sent had only been playing with boats for twelve weeks, I knew more about it than he did, and I know buggerall. They also made a mess of the farmyard with their van and when approached by the farmer, told him to f off, which didn't go down well. 

I suspect the bolt has just vibrated loose, but they probably did bung some oil and detergent in your bilge. Anyway, all is now well, which is what matters. 

Bang on Arthur but part of a service is to check for leaks on all pipes and hoses, did he?

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, magictime said:

(snip) on the one hand, it makes paying for a professional engine service look a complete waste of money; on the other, it shows how easy it can be to make apparently 'little' mistakes and oversights with real consequences, which is the sort of worry that makes me uneasy about going down the DIY route even with ostensibly simple things like filter changes.

If you've done it yourself, you'll worry about it more than if it's "left to a professional". That means that youll be more careful while doing the job, and if there's anything unusual afterwards. you'll check immediately, and, what's more, know where you've been and where to check. Also, if you're doing it yourself, not under time pressure, you've time to notice that stain that wasn't there last time you looked, and that hose that just might be chafing on that bracket etc, etc.

[TheBiscuits]

7 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There should be a drain plug at the bottom of ths separator bowl, which you should open every year or two and drain the collected water out, till it runs pink with pure diesel. 

That's a monthly check on my boat, and was a weekly check on my previous boat.  Every year or two is likely to lead to you spending a couple of grand on an engine rebuild ... 

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Both shareboats and the one I currently own had agglrometers mounted outside of the engine catchall, so i put a container under them.

Mine is the same and I hope I have this right, Tony recommended it so that its not subject to the engine vibration. But when I fitted mine I pit its own drip tray under it 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Chris Williams said:

I find it strange that boats seem to have the fuel tank (if it is a tank, not just part of the hull) right at the stern.  Full - down we go, empty - blade out of the water.

 

I think that may be bit of an exaggeration, The size of a prop on a modern boat it would need to come up about 5" for a blade to come out and most only carry about 100 Lts of fuel, 80 Kg 

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

most only carry about 100 Lts of fuel, 80 Kg

Are you sure Brian?

 

I only know a couple of boats that are that restricted on fuel, most of the ones I know are 200 or 300 litres.

[LoneWolf]

4 hours ago, magictime said:

The reason I thought it was water is that...

 

...my set up is like Arthur's, except that the thing doing this job is a replaceable filter rather than a permanent fixture, and the drip appeared to be coming from the bottom, where you're supposed to be able to let water out.

 

Upon further investigation the leak was coming from the larger nut on top of the thing the filter screws on to, visible near the bottom of the attached pic. It was indeed weeping diesel, which was then running down the side of the filter and dripping off the bottom. A quarter turn with a spanner has now stopped it, and a bit more spanner action seems to have (pretty much) stopped the stern gland leak too.

 

So incredibly enough I think we may have sorted it. (I say 'we' - more the missus than me to be honest, she fits in the engine room better! That's my excuse anyway.)

 

Whether this had anything to do with RCR... I dunno, seems a very odd coincidence but I don't know if they'd have had any reason to touch that nut.

 

Phew! Thanks all anyway.

 

Just thought I'd point out that the 'larger nut' that was the problem is the bleed screw - this may be useful to know when you do the next service yourself

Also, I'd say, another clue that the the finger of blame points to the useless RCR 

 

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Are you sure Brian?

 

I only know a couple of boats that are that restricted on fuel, most of the ones I know are 200 or 300 litres.

I carry 300 Lts. but had extra large tanks fitted that come forward both sides of the weed hatch, yes I have one of those as well.

edit to add

I think our share boat use to hold a little over 20 Gallons, it only needed to last 2 weeks.

Edited April 8, 2019 by ditchcrawler

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

Bang on Arthur but part of a service is to check for leaks on all pipes and hoses, did he?

Nope. Mind you, in their defence it was raining like a tropical downpour and they remained cheerful. Against that, they turned up an hour and a half early while I was still ten miles from the boat. 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I have heard so many terrible tales about RCR that I would not use them to bail out a dingy.

 

The thing is, RCR are only as good as the bloke who turns up on the day and he is as likely to be a self-employed subcontractor who RCR have no idea about really. I reckon they are desperate for staff in some areas given they cover the whole of the UK, and are just as likely to be on the phone searching for someone willing to attend as soon as any member calls in with a breakdown as they are to be sending a full time employee. 

 

Just as we find with British Gas, some of their bods will be excellent, most pretty mediocre and some utterly bloody awful. You have to just pay your money and hope for the best.

 

The thing is, not a lot of people post on the net or talk about it in pubs when a RCR bloke turns up, fixes it quickly and efficiently then goes away again. It just doesn't make a good moan or a good story. Same with BG, some of their blokes are really good. 

 

 

[NB Lola]

10 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think that may be bit of an exaggeration, The size of a prop on a modern boat it would need to come up about 5" for a blade to come out and most only carry about 100 Lts of fuel, 80 Kg 

We carry 400 litres

[Arthur Marshall]

The bloke they sent last year when I had a runaway boat was first rate . Two on other breakdows were useless, one because he knew nothing about Listers and the other knew nothing about electrics. One did his best, failed because of a schoolboy error (as it turned out when I paid for someone I knew to come out). I also had two gearbox failures, both of which were sorted by genuine experts and to which RCR contributed £1000 a time. So I stay with them, and just, if I need them, try to persuade them to send someone who knows old engines rather than a generic guy. But they will always tow me to a yard if necessary. So it's mixed, but still gives me instant access to a mechanic should I need one. But they won't be doing my servicing again.