New boat steel question

[The dog lady]

We have been looking at a new boat for sale from a small builder/fitter who buys in the hulls. They offer a choice of a few standard fit-outs with some options by the buyer. 

While we like the quality of interior finish on the layout we prefer, the steelwork comes with an 8mm baseplate, I'm guessing to keep costs down. We are a bit concerned that this will be a problem when we come to sell the boat as newer boats generally come with 10mm. The advice we've had is that 8mm is plenty and won't be a problem. Would anyone else buy a new boat with an 8mm base? Any advice please?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, The dog lady said:

We have been looking at a new boat for sale from a small builder/fitter who buys in the hulls. They offer a choice of a few standard fit-outs with some options by the buyer. 

While we like the quality of interior finish on the layout we prefer, the steelwork comes with an 8mm baseplate, I'm guessing to keep costs down. We are a bit concerned that this will be a problem when we come to sell the boat as newer boats generally come with 10mm. The advice we've had is that 8mm is plenty and won't be a problem. Would anyone else buy a new boat with an 8mm base? Any advice please?

Already answered :

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Already answered :

 

 

Maybe its a new boat by the same builder who built the other one 5 years ago

[The dog lady]

You're quick off the mark Alan! Just canvassing as many opinions as possible.

[Alan de Enfield]

Why would it matter if it was new or 'used' - the question asked is pretty much the same :

 

Q1) Is an 8mm bottom on newish boat unusual? Is it a potential problem when selling on?

 

Q2) We are a bit concerned that this will be a problem when we come to sell the boat as newer boats generally come with 10mm.

[The dog lady]

Are you always so abrupt Alan?

 

It is the same builder. I am trying to find out if 8mm is their standard or if used boat had been a one-off. 

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, The dog lady said:

Are you always so abrupt Alan?

 

It is the same builder. I am trying to find out if 8mm is their standard or if used boat had been a one-off. 

Hmm, that sounds a lot more like the question you should have asked in the first place then. 

 

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, The dog lady said:

 

It is the same builder. I am trying to find out if 8mm is their standard or if used boat had been a one-off. 

 

It would be bonkers for a shell builder to build onto an 8mm baseplate as the cost of the extra steel for 10mm is marginal, and it will be a real handicap selling an 8mm baseplate, new boat.

 

Therefore I reckon it was either a special order for someone with a bee in their bonnet about baseplates being too thick which then got cancelled, or is a plain simple mistake.  

 

Either wau I think this boat will be a pain in the arse to sell on, unless sold substantially cheaper than market value with a 10mm base. 

[WotEver]

30 minutes ago, The dog lady said:

Would anyone else buy a new boat with an 8mm base?

As previously said in the other thread, yes I might, but I’d expect it to be substantially cheaper than a similar boat with a 10mm base plate. 

[Sea Dog]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Either wau I think this boat will be a pain in the arse to sell on, unless sold substantially cheaper than market value with a 10mm base. 

After Brexit I'd sell it as a 5/16" baseplate with 15/64" sides and a 5/32" top - it'd probably fetch more then.

 

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It would be bonkers for a shell builder to build onto an 8mm baseplate as the cost of the extra steel for 10mm is marginal, and it will be a real handicap selling an 8mm baseplate, new boat.

A quick Google shows for a single sheet of 2550x1250...

 

8mm - £219 

10mm - £239

 

Obviously, bulk buying brings the price down substantiallly but the difference between 8mm and 10mm plate is negligible anyway. 

 

https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/3010848__Mild_Steel_Plate_2500_x_1250_x_8mm_Grade_S275

 

https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/30108410__Mild_Steel_Plate_2500_x_1250_x_10mm_Grade_S275

 

[bizzard]

Mine has a 8mm baseplate a 1997 boat superb, but I only dock it about every 6-7 years for reasons that I stated in the other fred.

[mrsmelly]

43 minutes ago, The dog lady said:

We have been looking at a new boat for sale from a small builder/fitter who buys in the hulls. They offer a choice of a few standard fit-outs with some options by the buyer. 

While we like the quality of interior finish on the layout we prefer, the steelwork comes with an 8mm baseplate, I'm guessing to keep costs down. We are a bit concerned that this will be a problem when we come to sell the boat as newer boats generally come with 10mm. The advice we've had is that 8mm is plenty and won't be a problem. Would anyone else buy a new boat with an 8mm base? Any advice please?

You have been answered already. Most boat were 6 mill or less for many years. There are plenty of springers about forty years old with 5 mill starting point. My old 6 mill based  colecraft of 1981 vintage is still going strong. It doesnt matter except to unknowledgable people when you come to sell who may worry uneccesarily like you are. Thus it will maybe be harder to sell but to someone who knows boats it will not. As others have stated why the hell is whoever using 8 mill??

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You have been answered already. Most boat were 6 mill or less for many years. There are plenty of springers about forty years old with 5 mill starting point. My old 6 mill based  colecraft of 1981 vintage is still going strong. It doesnt matter except to unknowledgable people when you come to sell who may worry uneccesarily like you are. Thus it will maybe be harder to sell but to someone who knows boats it will not. As others have stated why the hell is whoever using 8 mill??

Maybe there was a bit laying in the yard at the time

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe there was a bit laying in the yard at the time

The first 10 ft (estimate) of our base plate is 10mm, and the rest 6mm. I always assumed they just picked up whatever was lying around the yard at the time. Very odd........a bit like me.

[Sea Dog]

30 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The first 10 ft (estimate) of our base plate is 10mm, and the rest 6mm. I always assumed they just picked up whatever was lying around the yard at the time. Very odd........a bit like me.

How do you mean - quite slim, but a bit thick? 

[mark99]

It's about perception. A buyer will ALWAYS be checking the baseplate thickness described. Even though its not in reality critical, saving on 2mm will open up "what else have they skimped on".

 

It's a form of a  new boater comfort blanket. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by mark99

[MtB]

3 hours ago, mark99 said:

It's about perception. A buyer will ALWAYS be checking the baseplate thickness described. Even though its not in reality critical, saving on 2mm will open up "what else have they skimped on".

 

It's a form of a  new boater comfort blanket. 

 

 

Totally agree.

 

When I had a new baseplate put on one of my boats I had it done with 8mm pickled and primed on the advice of Simon. The first baseplate made of 5/16" iron lasted 110 years or so and I expect this baseplate will last me out and the next owner too. 

 

But most boat buyers are not well informed and expect/demand thick baseplates, so this is why a boat with an 8mm baseplate won't sell easily. In actual fact it doesn't matter a damn if you plan to keep it for life, but you asked about selling it on.....

[The dog lady]

Thanks everyone who replied, that's been useful. We will need to sell on at some point as are both very ancient and sea legs getting wobbly! 

[Athy]

Our last boat (built 2001) had an 8mm base plate. When the time came, five years later, it sold to the first couple who viewed it.

How long is this boat? Some builders tend to use lighter-gauge steel for shorter boats. Our last one was a 40-footer.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

Our last boat (built 2001) had an 8mm base plate. When the time came, five years later, it sold to the first couple who viewed it.

How long is this boat? Some builders tend to use lighter-gauge steel for shorter boats. Our last one was a 40-footer.

It is amazing how much variation there is - my last NB was 45 foot and had a 13mm (1/2") bottom.

The thicker bottom results in less ballast, lower floor levels and more headroom inside the boat - just goes to show how many things are 'interconnected'

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is amazing how much variation there is - my last NB was 45 foot and had a 13mm (1/2") bottom.

The thicker bottom results in less ballast, lower floor levels and more headroom inside the boat - just goes to show how many things are 'interconnected'

Yes, and I have heard of boats built with a 15mm bottom - perhaps because a tall customer specified more headroom than usual.

[noddyboater]

14 hours ago, rusty69 said:

The first 10 ft (estimate) of our base plate is 10mm, and the rest 6mm. I always assumed they just picked up whatever was lying around the yard at the time. Very odd........a bit like me.

Years ago there was a boat for sale in a yard I moored at. Someone had a pre-purchase survey done which highlighted steel of varying thickness in the hull sides towards the bow, and the baseplate needing welding on the seams underneath.

 The bow really did look like it had been put together out of whatever was lying around in the yard.

 The strange thing was it was built by one of the most sought after companies of that time, who were proud of their steelwork and build quality.

[Mad Harold]

15 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

You have been answered already. Most boat were 6 mill or less for many years. There are plenty of springers about forty years old with 5 mill starting point. My old 6 mill based  colecraft of 1981 vintage is still going strong. It doesnt matter except to unknowledgable people when you come to sell who may worry uneccesarily like you are. Thus it will maybe be harder to sell but to someone who knows boats it will not. As others have stated why the hell is whoever using 8 mill??

My boat is a 30 footer built 1978,and still going strong.  Original steel thickness,6,5,3mm.

The last survey recorded less than 1mm steel loss all round,but with some pitting noted.

I think more modern larger boats are built with thicker steel because a longer boat will need more torsional stiffness,and also I think (but have no evidence of this) that modern steel is of poorer quality and rusts quicker than the old stuff. It's just my theory,and have mentioned this before on this forum,but people more knowledgeable than me,have said this is not true,and it's environmental factors that cause more rapid corrosion.

I am simply basing my theory on my own observations.  (Great is the mystery of faith)

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I think more modern larger boats are built with thicker steel because a longer boat will need more torsional stiffness,and also I think (but have no evidence of this) that modern steel is of poorer quality and rusts quicker than the old stuff.

 

That's all a load of old bobbins in my view  ... boat builders don't go as far as calculating stuff like torsional rigidity!

 

The reason for the thicker steel nowadays is 40 years ago the industry was new and young and I reckon they just used the same thicknesses of steel as the riveted iron boats used iron. Boats were built to last 30 years back then but now people expect boats to last forever so demand ever ticker steelwork. 

 

And the rusting quicker thing, I've been hearing that said about steel of 30 years previously, ever since I was a teenager.