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I’m refitting a thirty year old boat which was put together inside with a multiplicity of brass screws. Virtually every single one has unscrewed straight out. 

These days you’re lucky to find a ‘brass’ screw that will go in even a pre-drilled hole without damaging its slot. Let alone come out. 

How can they still be called ‘brass’?

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I shall refrain from remarking on the overuse of modern powered drivers and their general unsuitability for slotted screws.

 

It still helps if you put a steel screw of the same size in first and you should  lightly vaseline the brass one too.  Doesn't arf slow things down though.

 

N

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Just now, BEngo said:

I shall refrain from remarking on the overuse of modern powered drivers and their general unsuitability for slotted screws.

 

It still helps if you put a steel screw of the same size in first and you should  lightly vaseline the brass one too.  Doesn't arf slow things down though.

 

N

Yes, I always pre-drill and cut the thread with a steel screw first, especially in hardwoods, someting I was taught to do more than fiftyfive yeas ago. However, the OP's observations do have some validity, many modern brass screws do appear to be softer than those in the past, and I suspect there are several reasons. Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc and the proportions can vary depending upon the cost and availabilty of the two key ingredients, causing a difference to both colour and hardness, secondly many modern (imported ) screws use re-cycled brass in the mix, and as the original specification is unkown this can effect quality, and thirdly, brass hardens with age, so theoreticly brass fittings which have been in place, or in stock, for a long time will not be a soft as something manufactured and purchased recently.

 

I do have a lot of modern screws in stock, but where possible, I aways try and use old stock screws preferably made by well respected manufacturers like GKN (Nettlefolds), often bought in boot sales,

 

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15 minutes ago, starman said:

I’m refitting a thirty year old boat which was put together inside with a multiplicity of brass screws. Virtually every single one has unscrewed straight out. 

These days you’re lucky to find a ‘brass’ screw that will go in even a pre-drilled hole without damaging its slot. Let alone come out. 

How can they still be called ‘brass’?

You're thinking of Chinese screws here aren't you, where "steel" screws are actually silver s#itmetal and "brass" screws are yellow s#itmetal. Whenever I buy anything that comes with screws I usually chuck them away to simplify the job and save time!

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13 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

You're thinking of Chinese screws here aren't you, where "steel" screws are actually silver s#itmetal and "brass" screws are yellow s#itmetal. Whenever I buy anything that comes with screws I usually chuck them away to simplify the job and save time!

I suppose buried in some very small print somewhere it says ‘microscopic layer of brass plate’. 

I’m still impressed at how well my 30 year old brass screws come out though. 

When using brass ones now I do usually pre-drill, drive in a Spax pozidrive with my power driver, remove and replace with hand driven slotted brass. 

Does that practice send me to cabinetmaker’s hell?

Edited by starman
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25 minutes ago, starman said:

I suppose buried in some very small print somewhere it says ‘microscopic layer of brass plate’. 

I’m still impressed at how well my 30 year old brass screws come out though. 

When using brass ones now I do usually pre-drill, drive in a Spax pozidrive with my power driver, remove and replace with hand driven slotted brass. 

Does that practice send me to cabinetmaker’s hell?

No, just someone who cares about  his work.

 

When I was at school (early 60s) I made an 11' wooden canoe. It used thousands of brass screws. The woodwork master insisted that each hole was drilled, counter-bored  and countersunk before a waxed brass screw was inserted. Each slotted screw was driven home by hand and ALL screw slots had to be aligned in the same direction. Not a power tool or Yankee driver in sight. -_- To this day I can't put a slotted screw in without ensuring that it's aligned in some way.

 

Frank

 

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1 hour ago, starman said:

I’m refitting a thirty year old boat which was put together inside with a multiplicity of brass screws. Virtually every single one has unscrewed straight out. 

 

 

Belfast was fitted out using modern hardened long thin pozidrive screws which I suspect were power driven without predrilling. They are a real b*gger to get out!

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I seldom use brass screws these days, they tarnish and don't look very special. I pilot drill, then counterbore an appropriate sized hole, drive a cheap screwfix steel screw right in and plug the hole with the right sized plug. Looks professional and really doesn't take much time compared with the aggro of countersinking slotted screws.

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I got a bag of brass screws at a car boot sale 10 years ago, have not used them yet but they look lovely. Modern brass (screws and bar etc) is much more yellow and does not look quite right on a boat, even when tarnished. There are lots of "recipes" for making brass and I am surprised that noboby has set up a little company to supply good quality brass.....or maybe they have.

 

As for screws, if money is not tight then Silicon Bronze might be the answer. Not cheap but not astronomic if purchased in quantity.

 

...............Dave

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1 hour ago, starman said:

I suppose buried in some very small print somewhere it says ‘microscopic layer of brass plate’. 

I’m still impressed at how well my 30 year old brass screws come out though. 

When using brass ones now I do usually pre-drill, drive in a Spax pozidrive with my power driver, remove and replace with hand driven slotted brass. 

Does that practice send me to cabinetmaker’s hell?

As far as I remember, the thread pitch of Spax screws is the same as on traditional slotted screws. So No, you are safe from Hell.

Edited by David Schweizer
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8 hours ago, Bee said:

I seldom use brass screws these days, they tarnish and don't look very special. I pilot drill, then counterbore an appropriate sized hole, drive a cheap screwfix steel screw right in and plug the hole with the right sized plug. Looks professional and really doesn't take much time compared with the aggro of countersinking slotted screws.

I don’t disagree with you - I like the finish of drilling and plugging. But on this boat brass pins and screws have been used to fix the t&g cladding. And as it’s only 12mm thick it’s not really practicable to plug. 

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On 2 April 2019 at 08:45, starman said:

I’m refitting a thirty year old boat which was put together inside with a multiplicity of brass screws. Virtually every single one has unscrewed straight out. 

These days you’re lucky to find a ‘brass’ screw that will go in even a pre-drilled hole without damaging its slot. Let alone come out. 

How can they still be called ‘brass’?

Use a well fitting screwdriver blade, that is fully tight in the slot. 

The modern hex bits are shaped correctly for slotted screws, much better than " traditional " screwdrivers, which are often tapered in thickness as well as width. 

 

Bod

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1 hour ago, Bod said:

Use a well fitting screwdriver blade, that is fully tight in the slot. 

The modern hex bits are shaped correctly for slotted screws, much better than " traditional " screwdrivers, which are often tapered in thickness as well as width. 

 

Bod

Slots in traditional woodscrews have got wider over the years. I still have a lot of early woodscrews and the slots are very fine, another feature of very early woodscrews is that the slot is slightly off centre. With regard to "traditional" screwdrivers, it depends how old they are, most of my my old boxwood handled screwdrivers are hollow ground, so the tipis parallel.

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On 02/04/2019 at 09:06, Sea Dog said:

You're thinking of Chinese screws here aren't you, where "steel" screws are actually silver s#itmetal and "brass" screws are yellow s#itmetal. Whenever I buy anything that comes with screws I usually chuck them away to simplify the job and save time!

I've had harder cheese than modern yellow metal screws.

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