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Water sitting on the roof


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Hi everyone.

 

Any suggestions on how to overcome having water sit in this section.

The rest of the roof drains ok.

 

Would it be okay to cut another drain down into the hand rail.

 

Options please ? thank you Tim 

IMG_20190402_074611.jpg

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We had new drain channels cut on our boat to overcome a puddling issue. Depending on the construction of your handrail you may be able to just drill a drain hole or you may have to cut and weld a new gap.

 

20170831_075332.jpg.7d7c7e1151e6408343ca81e2970d0499.jpg

Edited by Rob-M
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Usually, after sloping downhill all the way for the bow,  the back cabin roof rises towards the steering position. The drainage gap in the rails ought to have been be positioned at the lowest point by the builder.  If he's got it right, you may need to keep your water tank topped up a bit more or ballast the fore end down a bit to allow the run off to work. If he's got it wrong, it's just wrong. Either you need more intrusive intervention for drainage in the roof rails at the actual low point as suggested above... or you're gonna need to paint that bit more often! I think this is not an uncommon problem in truth.

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Some builders  seem to have been incapable of working out how the finished boat ought to sit in the water,and hence of getting theedain anywhere near the lowest point.  Mike Heywood (also Evans and Son) consistently got this wrong, but many Liverpool Boats "trads" are wrong to.  Doubtless there are others.

 

Cutting an extra gap can look wrong, and result in two close together in some cases, and we were warned that if you were used to walking the gunwale whilst not actively looking at the grab rail, you could end up (not!) grabbing the bit now removed, with possible bad consequences.

 

With care a tube can be welded through holes cut through the rails, but this needs to be done carefully to get it right down to the roof at the bottom or you will not fully solve the problem.  We had this done on a previous boat, and it worked. but you do have to clear the holes out regularly, as small leaves and other debris can block them.

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

We had new drain channels cut on our boat to overcome a puddling issue. Depending on the construction of your handrail you may be able to just drill a drain hole or you may have to cut and weld a new gap.

Looks very neat.  Did you have a former gap filed in?

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Lots of modern boats seem to have a continuous ledge on the cabin top as a handhold. Water does seem to gather where there isn't a drain place.

Older boats (like mine) have circular (or tubular) rails with welded supports every couple of feet. Much better in my opinion,as water runs straight off.

It's probably less labour intensive to make a boat with a continuous ledge and therefore cheaper.

I have seen an owner drill drain holes in the ledge,and then use a round file to make the holes flush with the roof.

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3 hours ago, Tim Gilbert said:

Hi everyone.

 

Any suggestions on how to overcome having water sit in this section.

The rest of the roof drains ok.

 

Would it be okay to cut another drain down into the hand rail.

 

Options please ? thank you Tim 

IMG_20190402_074611.jpg

I had exactly the same issue.  Fixed by cutting a big (~3cm) hole in the handrail, finished by welding a piece over the top to maintain the handrail.  Sorted the problem.  Don't think I've got a photo.

Yes I do:

image.png.c2e0e37a0e3f886bf8121c36b0cd394f.png

Edited by dor
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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Some builders  seem to have been incapable of working out how the finished boat ought to sit in the water,and hence of getting theedain anywhere near the lowest point.  Mike Heywood (also Evans and Son) consistently got this wrong, but many Liverpool Boats "trads" are wrong to.  Doubtless there are others.

 

Cutting an extra gap can look wrong, and result in two close together in some cases, and we were warned that if you were used to walking the gunwale whilst not actively looking at the grab rail, you could end up (not!) grabbing the bit now removed, with possible bad consequences.

 

With care a tube can be welded through holes cut through the rails, but this needs to be done carefully to get it right down to the roof at the bottom or you will not fully solve the problem.  We had this done on a previous boat, and it worked. but you do have to clear the holes out regularly, as small leaves and other debris can block them.

Looks very neat.  Did you have a former gap filed in?

Yes, the gap was moved by Streethay when they did our repaint.  It used to be about 10 inches forward and we would have a big puddle.

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1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

Lots of modern boats seem to have a continuous ledge on the cabin top as a handhold. Water does seem to gather where there isn't a drain place.

Older boats (like mine) have circular (or tubular) rails with welded supports every couple of feet. Much better in my opinion,as water runs straight off.

It's probably less labour intensive to make a boat with a continuous ledge and therefore cheaper.

I have seen an owner drill drain holes in the ledge,and then use a round file to make the holes flush with the roof.

It also stops the water running down the full length of the cabin sides and over the windows. People have been known to break fingers with a raised rail I think

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3 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Lots of modern boats seem to have a continuous ledge on the cabin top as a handhold. Water does seem to gather where there isn't a drain place.

Older boats (like mine) have circular (or tubular) rails with welded supports every couple of feet. Much better in my opinion,as water runs straight off.

 

For some reason, it became a convention years ago (1980s?) for trad sterned boats to have cants and for cruiser sterned boats to have the rails which you describe. On our trad sterned boat, we specified a variation on the latter, which was used on some working boats and which does have a name which I can't remember (Northwich rails?) They let the water through and they are far more grippable than cants.

trojan pics 010.jpg

Edited by Athy
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1 hour ago, Athy said:

On our trad sterned boat, we specified a variation on the latter, which was used on some working boats and which does have a name which I can't remember (Northwich rails?) They let the water through and they are far more grippable than cants.

I think I have heard them called  Yarwood rails. But could be wrong. (I usually am)

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

On our trad sterned boat, we specified a variation on the latter, which was used on some working boats and which does have a name which I can't remember (Northwich rails?) They let the water through and they are far more grippable than cants.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

I think I have heard them called  Yarwood rails. But could be wrong. (I usually am)


They certainly replicate the arrangement regularly used by W J Yarwood & Sons on many of the narrow boats they built, although I'm certain the arrangement was not unique to Yarwoods boats.

 

They certainly had the reputation that if you had your fingers tucked under them and slipped from the gunwales you could do your fingers a great deal of damage.

That's why whenever these get replaced on original Yarwoods boats a considerably larger upstand is often used, to give a bigger gap, that fingers are more likely to slip out of harmlessly.

"Flamingo" still has its original engine room roof, so has this rather nasty feature on that bit, but does have a slightly increased gap on the reconstructed back cabin.  I'm not sure a picture really shows it adequately though?

 

P1000992.JPG
 

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I seem to recall being told rails went out of favour since, when you put a foot wrong on the gunwale, your monkey reflex is to tighten your grip to cling on. With a raised edge, this doesn't save you from a plunge, but with a rail your instinct is to hang on... until your wrists break on the cabin edge and you take a plunge anyway.   Swimming and climbing out becomes a bit of a challenge in those circumstances.  Could be pants, but it sounds pretty feasible. 

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Thank you everyone.

I have only had the boat for a month.

Notice the paint was in poor condition along the area in the image.

Then today I was with the boat when it rained water sat there at 10mm deep.

 

With reference to the boat trim it's something I will consider as currently the water tank is empty, that said it does look like it's been doing it for along time.

 

Thank you again for all your advice ?

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2 minutes ago, Tim Gilbert said:

Thank you everyone.

I have only had the boat for a month.

Notice the paint was in poor condition along the area in the image.

Then today I was with the boat when it rained water sat there at 10mm deep.

 

With reference to the boat trim it's something I will consider as currently the water tank is empty, that said it does look like it's been doing it for along time.

 

Thank you again for all your advice ?

You may find that the boat being winterised every year ( including emptying the water tank) may have led to this paint problem.

Fill the tank and see if the water drains or not.

 

Some mid 90's Stowe Hill boats have a hole in the cabin roof  next to the handrail at the lowest point, going down via a plastic pipe to the lower gunnel levels. This allows drainage whilst retaining the solid handrail look.

Unfortunately, it is only a 1/2" mild steel pipe fitting welded in at top and bottom, so becomes blocked at the slightest excuse, is never painted so rots away, and everything is behind the cabin walls and insulation-  so the only time you find out its knackered is when the cabin bilge fills every rain shower.

 

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At some point in its life our boat has had extra gaps cut at the low point of the roof. The only problem is that they are over openable windows. Needless to say in a downpour the rain found its way into the boat and soaked the bed under them. For a longwhile we simply kept the windows tightly closed but it restricted ventilation to the bed area. So I have now closed the gaps off again and will live with some ponding on the roof.

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32 minutes ago, jenevers said:

You may find a 25mm wide strip of cloth draped over the rail will drain the water away by capillary action. If it does, put a weight on the inboard end to stop it blowing away.

Screw the cloth through the roof and it will drain faster :D

 

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14 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Cutting an extra gap can look wrong, and result in two close together in some cases, and we were warned that if you were used to walking the gunwale whilst not actively looking at the grab rail, you could end up (not!) grabbing the bit now removed, with possible bad consequences.

 

I used to try to grab the missing bit and fortunately never fell in. It's not a nice feeling. But it's easy enough to weld a bar over the top.

IMG_20180902_181233~2.jpg

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