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Canal and River trust Numbers. "legal" size / font


Kinver Canopies

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Hi,

 

Just a quick two part question. 

We've started a new embroidery service to add that little something to our boat covers. We are embroidering  boat names and logos but  Sod's law, the second customer has created a question for us!!  ( not that we mind,  I just want to get it right) They have  asked us to embroider the Canal and river trust logo  along with his boat number on to the canopy.  My question is ,

 

A. Are we allowed to use the logo ( I assume so as its freely painted on a lot of boats).  Part two of the question, Is there a standard ( almost legal) font and font size for the numbers.   

 

I think the answers are fairly obvious,  as in It's fine to use logo and and font is ok as long as it's clear.  But I just want to check before we put needle to canvas.  

 

The job is due out on Thursday so I would appreciate any 'Useful' feedback. 

 

Many Thanks 

Ian

 

 

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@dave moore might be the man to answer that as he has probably painted logos and numbers on the side of boats and I would assume that the same rules that apply to him would apply to you in your business. 

 

Just to add to the question - I wonder if you can use past incarnation of the logo, such as the bridge with the reeds or the swan or can you only use the current doughnut. 

 

 

Edited by Tumshie
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3 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Just to add to the question - I wonder if you can use past incarcerations of the logo, such as the bridge with the reeds or the swan or can you only use the current doughnut. 

 

 

On no!!!!  What have I started!!??!! ;)

 

Edited by Kinver Canopies
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Because our boat was originally launched in BW days we have its registration No, painted on the cant at the stern, prefixed with "BW."

 

Haven't been arrested yet........... :captain:

 

As long as the reg. No is displayed I doubt C&RT would be bothered.

 

 

Edited by Ray T
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28 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Just to add to the question - I wonder if you can use past incarcerations of the logo, such as the bridge with the reeds or the swan or can you only use the current doughnut. 

 

 

We have recently had our boat painted and signwritten and asked for the registration number to be accompanied by the old BW logo of the bridge and reeds simply because we like it. We are still here to tell the tale...

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12 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

incarnation - it should say incarnation

 

If your incarnation are wrongfully incarcerations does that mean you've got habeas corpus :giggles:

 

 

Boots do an ointment for that!!Very soothing.???

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I believe the number is supposed to be readable across the canal, but that is an old regulation, and doesn't allow for telephoto lenses or binoculars.  The plates that CRT supply are about 2 inches high, sans serif ,so a bit smaller than a car number plate but similar font.

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Most organisations are very protective of their logo and branding. They want permission to be asked and the correct fonts and colours to be used. The chances of you running afoul are slim I would think, but a question to them would get you the answers. Probably their marketing people.

Boats on CaRT waters need to have the index number on them. Having it on the canopy isn't going to negate that as if the canopy is off, or rolled up, then the boat would still need it displayed somewhere else.

 

According to this, there is someone called Nicky Wakeford, Head of Marketing & Supporter Development. Might be the one to ask?

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most organisations are very protective of their logo and branding. They want permission to be asked and the correct fonts and colours to be used. The chances of you running afoul are slim I would think, but a question to them would get you the answers. Probably their marketing people.

Boats on CaRT waters need to have the index number on them. Having it on the canopy isn't going to negate that as if the canopy is off, or rolled up, then the boat would still need it displayed somewhere else.

 

According to this, there is someone called Nicky Wakeford, Head of Marketing & Supporter Development. Might be the one to ask?

 

Jen

C&RT also insist that should you cover the boat, then you MUST have the registration number printed / painted onto the cover.

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I’m not giving an authoritative answer here because I neither know nor care, but for what it’s worth I usually paint the index number at about 2” tall, which looks right on the 4” botrder most trad style boats have. I’ve prefaced it in several ways, logo wise ...my favourite is the original “ wave” logo, simply done in 3 brushstrokes, symbolising moving water in a waterway. I’ve also painted the bridge and bulrush logo....but never the wretched swan in a bridgehole or the ludicrous doughnut!

 

Dave

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2 hours ago, Lysander said:

We have recently had our boat painted and signwritten and asked for the registration number to be accompanied by the old BW logo of the bridge and reeds simply because we like it. We are still here to tell the tale...

Same here, the signwriter said that most of his work involves the older logos as nobody wants the new ones.

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1 hour ago, Kinver Canopies said:

OR EMBROIDERED!! :) might of found a new market ;) 

As you are doing it by way of trade, I would suggest asking for permission in writing from CRT. 

 

I can't see them objecting to it being embroidered onto canopies, but if you just use it without prior permission they may be legally obliged to defend their trademark to protect it.  

 

I do have my own thoughts about the wisdom of making thousands more holes in a canopy just for decorative effect though ...  I might consider doing the embroidery on a separate panel and then stitch that onto the canopy, but as I don't have a canopy on this boat it's fairly academic!

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20 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

As you are doing it by way of trade, I would suggest asking for permission in writing from CRT.

 

There's plenty if ebay and other online sellers offering vinyl stickers with CRT logo and index number ( in various styles). Do they have CRT's permission?

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We just signright  the bw, bwb, crt or whatever they call themselves somwhere hidden,  it looks out of place on the boat.

Currently i think its  cunningly oxide on red oxide.

they seem to recognise the boat as being ours and the checker always gives a cheery wave.

the only one to complain was a vlockie who demanded the number last year. When challenged as to why, he mumbled and muttered so i gave him the fleet number instead.

Clearly the previous caretaker feels the same , last year i found the tin plates in the engine hole bilges when cleaning out.

i returned them to the same location.

 

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I just used to put the aluminum plate in the window when I came was on BW/CRT waters. Those plates have been laying in a drawer for the last 8 years. I'm struggling to understand why anyone would want those numbers or the logo permanently painted or embroidered on their boat - but then I don't really understand the idea of tattoos either!

 

To me, having the CRT logo and number painted on your boat is sort of like saying you're never going to leave CRT administered waters as your home waterway. I like living on a boat because there's a certain freedom in not knowing where I could be living in a few years time. I guess if you're sure about painting those numbers on, each to their own, just seems a bit blinkered to me.

Edited by blackrose
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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

To me, having the CRT logo and number painted on your boat is sort of like saying you're never going to leave CRT administered waters as your home waterway. I guess if you're sure, just seems a bit blinkered.

Or that you will mainly be on CRT waters - you can always add the EA registration number as well.

 

My previous boat had had a gold licence at some point, so CRT had it named on their official record as "Boat Name (EA Registration Number)"

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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

To me, having the CRT logo and number painted on your boat is sort of like saying you're never going to leave CRT administered waters as your home waterway. I like living on a boat because there's a certain freedom in not knowing where I could be living in a few years time.

ISTM that there's plenty of freedom staying on CRT waters. If you have a narrowboat that covers the vast majority of their natural habitat - you might stray onto other waters for a while, but staying on non CRT waters would seem the very opposite of freedom. Meanwhile I don't really see the problem with having CRT numbers displayed for the times when you're elsewhere.

 

The thing is, you're required to display the numbers, so your options are either to have the aluminium plates on display or the number painted on the side. If you are planning on spending most or all of your time on CRT waters as plenty of people do then it seems to make sense not to have an aluminium plate sitting in the window when other alternatives are available - personally I dislike having the plate in the window, so plan to get the numbers painted on the side when I rename the boat and get the new name painted.

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10 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

We just signright  the bw, bwb, crt or whatever they call themselves somwhere hidden,  it looks out of place on the boat.

Currently i think its  cunningly oxide on red oxide.

they seem to recognise the boat as being ours and the checker always gives a cheery wave.

the only one to complain was a vlockie who demanded the number last year. When challenged as to why, he mumbled and muttered so i gave him the fleet number instead.

Clearly the previous caretaker feels the same , last year i found the tin plates in the engine hole bilges when cleaning out.

i returned them to the same location.

 

Good luck trying that with DVLA Roland! :D

 

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