BSS Question re Gas Lockers

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

For goodness sake please do not assume that we are not doing that and even if we wasn't and following BSS regulations what has that got to do with anyone if we are not selling it !  I am not obliged to do the RCD directive if I do not want to and hopefully Brexit happens so all this rubbish that is imposed on us by the EU Stops !!

It was only a few days ago that you mentioned you would like to sell the boat, perhaps that was in a moment of frustration, perhaps not, but, I wish you luck. I've read this thread through from beginning to end, and I think it has been very informative.

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I hope you don't go off in a huff,

 

I'd be delighted if the OP goes off in a huff, after the shitty PM he just sent me.

 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd be delighted if the OP goes off in a huff, after the shitty PM he just sent me.

 

 

I think he has pushed his luck far enough, he won't be getting any answers now. Fancy upsetting MtB, I could never do that

[MtB]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I think he has pushed his luck far enough, he won't be getting any answers now. Fancy upsetting MtB, I could never do that

 

Received wisdom seems to be he is on here looking for support and approval, rather information and advice. 

 

I think received wisdom is correct!

 

 

[bizzard]

I'm off to the dentist next week to have a Wisdom tooth put in.

[MtB]

Just now, bizzard said:

I'm off to the dentist next week to have a Wisdom tooth put in.

 

Oi that's MY joke!!

 

I think you should have four done ... lol  

[David Mack]

12 hours ago, Peter009 said:

 

Seriously did any of you read that we paid someone ELSE to do the installation as they were apparently compliant however subsequently found out they were not in fact compliant and the gas installation is wrong so therefore how is that our fault other than being ripped off and having to have it done again.  

Peter, Sorry to tell you this, but as someone who bought a part-fitted boat and are now completing the work, you are now legally the boatbuilder. That makes you legally responsible for RCD compliance (to the extent this applies). It is now your legal responsibility to ensure that contractors you engage are competent and you cannot just assume they know what they are doing.

Edited April 8, 2019 by David Mack

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Peter, Sorry to tell you this, but as someone who bought a part-fitted boat and are now completing the work, you are now legally the boatbuilder. That makes you legally responsible for RCD compliance (to the extent this applies). It is now your legal responsibility to ensure that contractors you engage are competent and you cannot just assume they know what they are doing.

I was going to post the same.

 

I have been looking for this information in the RCD Guidance Documents so as to ensure the wording was correct but I have not found it yet.

 

In principle you are 100% correct. Pete is now the 'builder' and any subcontractors work has to be 'signed' off by him as being RCD compliant.

[LadyG]

I think OP indicated he is not interested in RCD compliance.

I'm not convinced if he initially understood his responsibilities and the implications down the line.

If he did not know before, he should know by now.

[ditchcrawler]

On 07/04/2019 at 10:16, blackrose said:

 

That's true, but if you're fitting out the boat yourself and not intending to sell it for 5 years then you can make all installations to BSS standards rather than RCD. That's what I did on my boat 14 years ago and I assume the rules haven't changed?

 

However, an intention not to sell may be different from what actually transpires. Circumstances change and skimming through this thread it doesn't sound like the OP is convinced that they'll keep the boat for 5 years. Peter was talking about selling earlier.

 

If this is a sailaway that's being fitted out by the owner then the other thing that occurs to me is that if you buy a sailaway and then pay people to install systems and fit it out for you, it will probably end up being more expensive than buying a fully fitted boat from the builder (assuming the same spec of fit-out). The whole point of a sailaway/self-fit out is that you fit it out yourself. I appreciate that not everyone is adequately capable or competent to install lpg or electrical systems, but the less you can do yourself the less sense a sailaway makes.

Its all been said

Edited April 8, 2019 by ditchcrawler
Others got there first

[Detling]

On 07/04/2019 at 11:19, blackrose said:

 

Anyway, depending on if/when/how we leave the EU, the Recreational Craft Directive, Directive 94/25/EC on recreational craft, as amended by Directive 2003/44/EC, may cease to exist for us.

I understand it has been converted into a UK regulation in preparation for brexit so it will still be here.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Detling said:

I understand it has been converted into a UK regulation in preparation for brexit so it will still be here.

 

It has always been a UK regulation actually, just harmonised with the EU equivalent. 

 

I'm 100% certain it will persist if/when we leave the EU. Politicians NEVER reduce safety standards, only ever increase them and make them ever more complex.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It has always been a UK regulation actually, just harmonised with the EU equivalent. 

 

I'm 100% certain it will persist if/when we leave the EU. Politicians NEVER reduce safety standards, only ever increase them and make them ever more complex.

I think we have only just (mid '18) ratified the latest RCD amendments issued in '17.

 

(The ones where if you install a new engine, or change a diesel engine boat to electric it must be submitted for "Post Construction Evaluation" to the RCD, any 'major work' (over-plating or lengthening for example) and it must be re-submitted.

 

Changes to Recreational Craft Directive

Sale and modification of second hand boats

The have been some changes to the rules applicable to craft that undergo a Major Craft Conversion, together with a better definition of what this actually means. The scope of the new Directive now specifically applies to any watercraft that is subject to Major Craft Conversion (Article 2.1(f)). Major Craft Conversion is defined in Article 3(7) of the Directive and means: a conversion of a watercraft which changes the means of propulsion of the watercraft, involves a major engine modification, or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive.

Article 19(3) of the new Directive places a responsibility on anyone undertaking a Major Craft Modification and states that:  Any person placing on the market or putting into service a propulsion engine or a watercraft after a major modification or conversion thereof, or any person changing the intended purpose of a watercraft not covered by this Directive in a way that it falls under its scope, shall apply the procedure referred to in Article 23 before placing the product on the market or putting it into service.

Article 23 sets out the equivalent conformity assessment based on post-construction assessment (Module PCA) which is provided in Annex V of the new Directive.

What does this mean?

This means that any CE marked vessel* that undergoes a Major Craft Conversion must undergo a Module PCA assessment before being placed back on the market or put into service (whichever is the earlier). The legal responsibility for this is placed on the person who is placing the vessel back on the market or putting it back into service after the Major Craft Conversion has been carried out.

 

*Vessels certified to:

Directive 94/25/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 16 June 1994 as amended by Directive 2003/44/EC; or

Directive 2013/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 November 2013 on recreational craft and personal watercraft and repealing Directive 94/25/EC.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Detling]

 

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What does this mean?

This means that any CE marked vessel* that undergoes a Major Craft Conversion must undergo a Module PCA assessment before being placed back on the market or put into service (whichever is the earlier). The legal responsibility for this is placed on the person who is placing the vessel back on the market or putting it back into service after the Major Craft Conversion has been carried out.

 

That makes a good reason not to have a CE marked vessel, does unscrewing the plate on a 6 year old boat make it unmarked so you can change the engine.

 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Detling said:

 

That makes a good reason not to have a CE marked vessel, does unscrewing the plate on a 6 year old boat make it unmarked so you can change the engine.

 

 

Yes it does, because that plate forms part of the CE Marking and no plate = not CE compliant!

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, Detling said:

 

That makes a good reason not to have a CE marked vessel, does unscrewing the plate on a 6 year old boat make it unmarked so you can change the engine.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes it does, because that plate forms part of the CE Marking and no plate = not CE compliant!

The problem being (unless it is a home build) the  builder will have certified it as CE Compliant, so when you show 'the authorities' the original bill of sale to prove the build date it will show them the all they need to know.

 

Also, fuel tanks had to be marked with the date they were pressure tested (mine had 'weld-writing' on it) so yet again a 'manufactured date' & RCD give away.

 

The RCD number is not only on the CE Plate, but usually moulded / stamped into the Transom & also in a 'Hidden spot' only known to the manufacturer.

[GUMPY]

19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd be delighted if the OP goes off in a huff, after the shitty PM he just sent me.

 

 

Publish and be dammed!

 

Go on you know you can (want to)

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Publish and be dammed!

 

Go on you know you can (want to)

Probably better not. Four letter words were exchanged [I have no doubt]

Edited April 8, 2019 by LadyG

[cuthound]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Probably better not. Four letter words were exchanged [I have no doubt]

 

What? ?

[Alan de Enfield]

Work is a 4-letter word and should be banned.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Work is a 4-letter word and should be banned.

Actually, I hated many of my "jobs", but I like " to work" 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Probably better not. Four letter words were exchanged [I have no doubt]

Have you seen it then?

 

[Boater Sam]

GO on, another vote for disclosure.

After all i've just had a nasty 4 letter word thrown at me on the open forum by a "lady" so who cares?

[LadyG]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you seen it then?

 

I don't need to, he indicated  he was not happy to be "called out".

Had to be MtB, who told it like it is. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by LadyG

[MtB]

I think there is an element of the lynch mob/bullying tendency going on here so I don't intend to publish the PM. Unless he continues complaining about being trolled by people just offering up sound technical advice, that is!

 

It is in much the same tone as his moany posts on here in public anyway so isn't that exciting. Let's just say it rhymes with his public whining.