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BSS Question re Gas Lockers


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58 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've seen vans with "Corgi", but then I;ve seen vans plastered with boasts, like "good electrical work!

I was driving through Keighley when I saw a van signpainted “Singh & Singh Building Contractors. You’ve tried the cowboys, now try the Indians”

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10 hours ago, Peter009 said:

The gas has been incorrectly installed not following safety or BSS standards and is completely coming out next week and will be reinstalled by a fully qualified boat gas fitter following BSS regulations. 

 

I am shocked you have STILL not clocked that BSS is not the regulation governing new boat builds. It is a slack and partial standard for inspecting existing installations for safety, not new installations. For new installations you need to be following the requirements of the RCD, the Recreational Crafts Directive. FAR more stringent. 

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12 hours ago, LadyG said:

We invented North Sea Gas, and gave it away to The English. I've seen vans with "Corgi", but then I;ve seen vans plastered with boasts, like "good electrical work! lol.

.Any one with any sense gets out of this place and earns a living elsewhere. Those who stay, verge on the useless.

Shetlanders made sure they got a dollar for every barrel or whatever, and now have super facilities and so on, and a great big capital fund.

I think others would give you an argument. It was the Dutch who discovered offshore North Sea Gas in the Southern North Sea in 1959,  followed by the UK with the English West Sole field in 1965, the first UK development.  

 

I agree with you about Shetland, however, although that was mainly to do with oil rather than gas. Their astute handling of the oil revenues, which has been a great benefit to the islands, has been an object lesson in how to do things properly, rather than the sometimes clumsy way we do things further South (and I never mentioned the B word!)

 

Howard

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10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I am shocked you have STILL not clocked that BSS is not the regulation governing new boat builds. It is a slack and partial standard for inspecting existing installations for safety, not new installations. For new installations you need to be following the requirements of the RCD, the Recreational Crafts Directive. FAR more stringent. 

 

That's true, but if you're fitting out the boat yourself and not intending to sell it for 5 years then you can make all installations to BSS standards rather than RCD. That's what I did on my boat 14 years ago and I assume the rules haven't changed?

 

However, an intention not to sell may be different from what actually transpires. Circumstances change and skimming through this thread it doesn't sound like the OP is convinced that they'll keep the boat for 5 years. Peter was talking about selling earlier.

 

If this is a sailaway that's being fitted out by the owner then the other thing that occurs to me is that if you buy a sailaway and then pay people to install systems and fit it out for you, it will probably end up being more expensive than buying a fully fitted boat from the builder (assuming the same spec of fit-out). The whole point of a sailaway/self-fit out is that you fit it out yourself. I appreciate that not everyone is adequately capable or competent to install lpg or electrical systems, but the less you can do yourself the less sense a sailaway makes.

Edited by blackrose
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25 minutes ago, blackrose said:

That's true, but if you're fitting out the boat yourself and not intending to sell it for 5 years then you can make all installations to BSS standards rather than RCD. That's what I did on my boat 14 years ago and I assume the rules haven't changed?

 

Quite so if that is an informed decision made by the boat builder (who for the purposes of the RCD is the OP). But my point was that the OP seems as far as I can tell, never to have heard of the RCD let alone understand how invasive it is regarding fitting out of his boat, or how it legally prevents him from selling it within five years given he has chosen by default not to follow regulations in it.  

 

And it is nothing to do with "not intending to sell it". Selling it within five years would be a criminal offence.

 

Even at this late stage the OP would be well advised to google "Recreational Craft Directive" and read the whole lot, then make some informed decisions about how to deal with gas installations and selling (should it come to that).

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Quite so if that is an informed decision made by the boat builder (who for the purposes of the RCD is the OP). But my point was that the OP seems as far as I can tell, never to have heard of the RCD let alone understand how invasive it is regarding fitting out of his boat, or how it legally prevents him from selling it within five years given he has chosen by default not to follow regulations in it.  

 

And it is nothing to do with "not intending to sell it". Selling it within five years would be a criminal offence.

 

Even at this late stage the OP would be well advised to google "Recreational Craft Directive" and read the whole lot, then make some informed decisions about how to deal with gas installations and selling (should it come to that).

It is an 'old boat'.

A post by Peter from October last year :

 

Hi sorry should of mentioned this has never been in the water the previous owner did not have enough time for it  left it to the elements in the boat yard when we got it we sandblasted it and it has been painted primed etc, am wondering whether the hull paint has been put on too thick in that area if so will use heat to try to loosen it as well am going to have a go at this either today or tomorrow but whatever it is am hoping that it is not a huge problem.

 

Hi have just found some pics sorry not the best but all I have at the moment as we are not at the boat until Monday but not sure if these pics are any good, the boat is 4 years old and is made by Yorkshire Boat Builders but had been sitting in a boat yard 3 years before we brought it and we had to get it sandblasted due to the surface rust it is now painted, thanks

 

However, it will still come under the auspices of the RCD as it has never been 'put into service'.

RCD Definition :

 

‘putting into service’ means the first use of a product covered by this Directive in the Union by its end-user;

 

The person selling it to Peter sold it illegally (unless he handed over all of the RCD paperwork to the build stage it was at), but as it will be 5 years old pretty soon (probably before Peter sells it - or even completes it) then he maybe be OK to sell it.

I presume he has the original bill of sale to prove its age if he needs to sell it.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Quite so if that is an informed decision made by the boat builder (who for the purposes of the RCD is the OP). But my point was that the OP seems as far as I can tell, never to have heard of the RCD let alone understand how invasive it is regarding fitting out of his boat, or how it legally prevents him from selling it within five years given he has chosen by default not to follow regulations in it.  

 

And it is nothing to do with "not intending to sell it". Selling it within five years would be a criminal offence.

 

Even at this late stage the OP would be well advised to google "Recreational Craft Directive" and read the whole lot, then make some informed decisions about how to deal with gas installations and selling (should it come to that).

 

I agree with you Mike. Knowing about the RCD should be a prerequisite to buying any new boat including a sailaway. You're also correct that selling a non-RCD compliant boat within 5 years would be a criminal offence, however I've never heard of any genuine self-fittout owners being prosecuted for contravening that law (it may have happened just that I've not heard about it).

 

An intention not to sell at the time of purchase is not relevant in law and may not even constitute an adequate defense in court, but it is relevant purely in respect that nobody knows the future, which is why I mentioned that an intention is different from what actually transpires.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is an 'old boat'.

A post by Peter from October last year :

 

Hi sorry should of mentioned this has never been in the water the previous owner did not have enough time for it  left it to the elements in the boat yard when we got it we sandblasted it and it has been painted primed etc, am wondering whether the hull paint has been put on too thick in that area if so will use heat to try to loosen it as well am going to have a go at this either today or tomorrow but whatever it is am hoping that it is not a huge problem.

 

Hi have just found some pics sorry not the best but all I have at the moment as we are not at the boat until Monday but not sure if these pics are any good, the boat is 4 years old and is made by Yorkshire Boat Builders but had been sitting in a boat yard 3 years before we brought it and we had to get it sandblasted due to the surface rust it is now painted, thanks

 

However, it will still come under the auspices of the RCD as it has never been 'put into service'.

RCD Definition :

 

‘putting into service’ means the first use of a product covered by this Directive in the Union by its end-user;

 

Ok, in that case if it's over 5 years old then none of the RCD stuff that me and Mike have been talking about is relevant.

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Yes the five year moratorium on flogging it starts when the boat build is finished, so I guess selling it before finishing is probably fine and there will be a procedure set out in the RCD.

 

 

Thinking a bit more 'into it' - you are correct. The 5-year rule is indeed from date of 'putting into service', but not being the 1st owner I'm not sure how that would pan out.

 

I think you and Blackrose are probably correct - it would be sold illegally if Peter sold within 5 years of it 'hitting the water' (being put into service) and it was 'substantially complete'.

I guess we can all argue our boats are 'never finished'.

 

It may take an RCD expert to rule on it.

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It may take an RCD expert to rule on it.

 

Anyway, depending on if/when/how we leave the EU, the Recreational Craft Directive, Directive 94/25/EC on recreational craft, as amended by Directive 2003/44/EC, may cease to exist for us.

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19 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Anyway, depending on if/when/how we leave the EU, the Recreational Craft Directive, Directive 94/25/EC on recreational craft, as amended by Directive 2003/44/EC, may cease to exist for us.

Never fear. Nothing is that easy! Theresa is think of an alternative as we speak.

 

Howard

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Anyway, depending on if/when/how we leave the EU, the Recreational Craft Directive, Directive 94/25/EC on recreational craft, as amended by Directive 2003/44/EC, may cease to exist for us.

 

Fat chance. What politician would ever argue for reducing safety standards. Something equivalent will replace it unless it is already written into uk law. Mark my words...

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Fat chance. What politician would ever argue for reducing safety standards. Something equivalent will replace it unless it is already written into uk law. Mark my words...

I thought that part of the Leave Brexit was that all EU law would be written into UK law 'en-masse'.

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought that part of the Leave Brexit was that all EU law would be written into UK law 'en-masse'.

 

Now you say so, i think you’re right. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Now you say so, i think you’re right. 

 

 

 

 

I'd imagine that our boat builders would still build to the RCD even if there was no requirement to do so for UK sales.

 

The Likes of Princess Boats (Plymouth) whose motor yachts run into 'the £ millions' export 90% of their production.

 

It is amazing that despite Brexit they announced in July last year that they would be employing ANOTHER 800 people in the Plymouth factory (they already employed 2,900)

 

Princess has increased production volume by 30 per cent and will make about 300 yachts this year.

More than 90 per cent of Princess’s yachts are exported and more than 80 per cent of each yacht, excluding engines, is manufactured in the city.

 

2017 generated record profits for the company, but by July 2018 they had already passed the total 2017 figure, the company says it  "has seen sales go stratospheric in the past two years, sold a jaw-dropping £30million worth of boats in just one week**" 

 

** Press Release :

 

Luxury boat maker Princess Yachts is on the crest of a wave after selling £30million worth of boats – in just a week.

The Plymouth manufacturer triumphed at the world-famous Düsseldorf boat show, in Germany, where it sold 24 yachts, adding £30million to the its 750million-euro order book.

The sum means it earned more than 10 per cent of its usual annual turnover within just one week.

It was the firm’s best performance at "Boot Düsseldorf", the world’s largest boat show, which ran this year from January 20 to 28.

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19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I am shocked you have STILL not clocked that BSS is not the regulation governing new boat builds. It is a slack and partial standard for inspecting existing installations for safety, not new installations. For new installations you need to be following the requirements of the RCD, the Recreational Crafts Directive. FAR more stringent. 

For goodness sake please do not assume that we are not doing that and even if we wasn't and following BSS regulations what has that got to do with anyone if we are not selling it !  I am not obliged to do the RCD directive if I do not want to and hopefully Brexit happens so all this rubbish that is imposed on us by the EU Stops !!

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3 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

For goodness sake please do not assume that we are not doing that and even if we wasn't and following BSS regulations what has that got to do with anyone if we are not selling it !  I am not obliged to do the RCD directive if I do not want to and hopefully Brexit happens so all this rubbish that is imposed on us by the EU Stops !!

 

19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I am shocked you have STILL not clocked that BSS is not the regulation governing new boat builds. It is a slack and partial standard for inspecting existing installations for safety, not new installations. For new installations you need to be following the requirements of the RCD, the Recreational Crafts Directive. FAR more stringent. 

Seriously did any of you read that we paid someone ELSE to do the installation as they were apparently compliant however subsequently found out they were not in fact compliant and the gas installation is wrong so therefore how is that our fault other than being ripped off and having to have it done again.  This is exactly the reason why I did not want to mention it on this forum as people go off on one and make accusations that are just not true some of you really need to read what I have said before implying otherwise it is just rude carrying on like this !  I have much better things to do than even bother with a further response on this get off your high horse and actually read the post !

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If it was not for the trolling on this forum and the constant insults for having a wide beam boat this forum would be a fantastic place there are a few really good people on here but unfortunately a lot of trolls too that ruin it for others quite sad really when there is clearly so much knowledge on this forum that there are so many people ready to jump on the bandwagon with insults or accusations as soon as they get a chance.  PATHETIC !

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I don't think you are being very fair, it's not about your choice of a widebeam, it's more a concern that you don't seem to have a plan. You have taken on a large project, but don't seem to have a surveyor to help you with the technical stuff. 

I hope you don't go off in a huff, but I think you need some on site advice, even if you have to pay for it.

Edited by LadyG
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Peter, may I say that your comment after you have received good advice here is in very poor taste.

You are not being trolled, people have there own views and express them on the forum in their own way.

Some are humourous some are a bit course, others don't like wide boats at all.

 

When you have been cruising on the UK canals for a while you will discover that they were never intended in the main for wide boats and that your boat may well cause other boaters some inconvenience.

But boaters are mostly an easy going lot and we have accepted that many people feel that they bust have a boat wider than a narrow boat. 

Most of the comments made to you are in an attempt to avoid you further angst, certainly not aggressive or unpleasant.

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55 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

If it was not for the trolling on this forum...

I have yet to see any. There has been some criticism, sure, but if you’re simply looking for a forum where everyone pats you on the back and tells you what a jolly good job you’re doing then you’re not in the right place.

 

There is a wealth of knowledge on these forums and some of it will be given quite robustly, so if that’s not for you then that’s a shame but at least you’re forewarned.

 

As regards the gas installation it’s very simple - you paid a so-called professional and he didn’t know what he was doing. We can all sympathise with that. However it now appears that you’re paying another professional and still not doing the installation to RCD standards. I cannot imagine why not; even if you don’t sell the boat within 5 years of launching it why wouldn’t you want to aim for the highest standards?

1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

I am not obliged to do the RCD directive if I do not want to and hopefully Brexit happens so all this rubbish that is imposed on us by the EU Stops !!

With regard to your first sentence that is absolutely correct as long as you’re aware that you’ll be committing a criminal offence if you sell the boat within 5 years of launching it. 

 

With regard to your second sentence it will be irrelevant whether Brexit happens or not. All existing legislation will be written into statute if we leave.  

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