BSS Question re Gas Lockers

[Peter009]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Not if it's a BSS failure ...

Good point but you may get it for a snip as seriously I have had enough of it and so has the wife I am not throwing my toys out of the pram but it has been a nightmare from start to finish and I think we have had enough of it so may well put it up for sale we have had nothing but problems with people and the boat yard might buy a tent instead !!

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Good point but you may get it for a snip as seriously I have had enough of it and so has the wife I am not throwing my toys out of the pram but it has been a nightmare from start to finish and I think we have had enough of it so may well put it up for sale we have had nothing but problems with people and the boat yard might buy a tent instead !!

Just be careful you don't buy the wrong tent and fall out with the campsite manager ...

[Peter009]

7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Just be careful you don't buy the wrong tent and fall out with the campsite manager ...

?thanks that cheered me up no end this morning 

[Alan de Enfield]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but this situation is a typical reason why it is (almost) always suggested to newby-boaters that it is better to buy a 2nd hand boat than a shell and build it yourself (have others do the work).

After a few years ownership you begin to understand the costs, frustrations and complexity of boat ownership and maintenance, you begin to understand the difference between 'must-have', nice-to-have, and 'don't need' and have learnt which sub-contractors you can trust to know what they are doing.

 

If you can get thru the next couple of months it'll be a dim & distant bad dream with just "the dream" on the horizon.

[howardang]

10 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Alan, what do you mean hopefully not through the floor of the gas locker, I am getting people to do this that apparently know what they are doing but that concerns me as I think that is exactly where he intends to have the pipes going up the gas locker I am supposed to be paying someone that knows what he is doing and has worked on canalboats but I am quite worried now as the intention is I understand to go from the water tank to the back and under the gas locker and right through to outside of the boat but definitely I believe starting at floor level and if he should not be doing that and has already done it as he was in on Friday and said he did a few things in the boat I am just hoping he has not gone ahead and done this if it is not correct as I told him to check with me first 

Peter,

 

Sorry to be personal, but this is an important subject and it would be very helpful if you could write your posts with some punctuation, so that there is no misunderstanding. At present, it is difficult to follow some of what you are are saying, and people trying to help need to have as clear a picture as possible about what you are asking. Better still, I would also strongly recommend that you involve a BSS inspector before you do something to get his interpretation of the Regulations, rather than having to change things around afterwards. In the long run it may save you money. This also applies to other aspects of your current rebuild.

 

Finally, people on this forum can be very helpful, and knowledgeable, but you have no way of telling whether they are giving you good advice or not, so you need to weigh up how much you can rely on what they recommend. In that regard it is like taking advice from anyone you may speak to in a waterside pub, without knowing who they are. In my view treat any important tips with a healthy dose of scepticism until you can verify it from another source.

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, howardang said:

Finally, people on this forum can be very helpful, and knowledgeable, but you have no way of telling whether they are giving you good advice or not,

Which is why, in Post No2 I said :

 

Why not ask a BSS examiner, we can only put our interpretation on the rules which are often at odds with the inconsistent interpretations made by the examiners. 

 

My gas locker is above my bedroom.

The gas pipe runs down inside a 22mm copper pipe, thru the bottom of the gas locker, thru the cabin roof, along the 'inside' of the cabin roof (behind the headlinings) and thru' into the galley.

 

The boat is GRP, the gas locker is GRP, the 22mm copper pipe is 'glass fibred' into the base of the locker, the the top end of the pipe above the gas cylinder, regulator and bubble tester.

The gas cylinder is restrained by a small 'ratchet-strap'.

It has passed a number of BSS examinations.

 

I would suggest that a steel pipe welded onto the floor of Pete's locker, the top at the correct height, and having the water pipes running inside it would be likely to pass.

Anything glued or 'mastic' to the locker floor will be a fail.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Laurie Booth]

44 minutes ago, howardang said:

Peter,

 

Sorry to be personal, but this is an important subject and it would be very helpful if you could write your posts with some punctuation, so that there is no misunderstanding. At present, it is difficult to follow some of what you are are saying, and people trying to help need to have as clear a picture as possible about what you are asking. Better still, I would also strongly recommend that you involve a BSS inspector before you do something to get his interpretation of the Regulations, rather than having to change things around afterwards. In the long run it may save you money. This also applies to other aspects of your current rebuild.

 

Finally, people on this forum can be very helpful, and knowledgeable, but you have no way of telling whether they are giving you good advice or not, so you need to weigh up how much you can rely on what they recommend. In that regard it is like taking advice from anyone you may speak to in a waterside pub, without knowing who they are. In my view treat any important tips with a healthy dose of scepticism until you can verify it from another source.

 

Howard

Sorry could not help seeing this.

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Sorry could not help seeing this.

I was wondering when someone would spot that (as Captain Mainwaring would say). It just proves my point about how careful you have to be when reading posts on this, or any other forum!?

 

Howard 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Which is why, in Post No2 I said :

 

Why not ask a BSS examiner, we can only put our interpretation on the rules which are often at odds with the inconsistent interpretations made by the examiners. 

 

 

Imitation is the best form of flattery, as my old Mum used to say.

 

Howard

[Peter009]

On 01/04/2019 at 09:10, howardang said:

Peter,

 

Sorry to be personal, but this is an important subject and it would be very helpful if you could write your posts with some punctuation, so that there is no misunderstanding. At present, it is difficult to follow some of what you are are saying, and people trying to help need to have as clear a picture as possible about what you are asking. Better still, I would also strongly recommend that you involve a BSS inspector before you do something to get his interpretation of the Regulations, rather than having to change things around afterwards. In the long run it may save you money. This also applies to other aspects of your current rebuild.

 

Finally, people on this forum can be very helpful, and knowledgeable, but you have no way of telling whether they are giving you good advice or not, so you need to weigh up how much you can rely on what they recommend. In that regard it is like taking advice from anyone you may speak to in a waterside pub, without knowing who they are. In my view treat any important tips with a healthy dose of scepticism until you can verify it from another source.

 

Howard

Hi Howard forgive my punctuation.  We have now involved a BSS inspector who is helping us with this and there are issues with the installation overall with the gas and we are dealing with the person who did this so it all has to be re done now in any case.  Thanks

[LadyG]

Oh dear.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, Peter009 said:

there are issues with the installation overall with the gas and we are dealing with the person who did this so it all has to be re done

Do I remember correctly ?

 

You were "using a qualified marine engineer with many years of experience in boat installations and the RCD".

What has to be re-done ?

 

Maybe it could be useful for other DIY boat fitters if you could explain what happened.

[howardang]

7 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Hi Howard forgive my punctuation.  We have now involved a BSS inspector who is helping us with this and there are issues with the installation overall with the gas and we are dealing with the person who did this so it all has to be re done now in any case.  Thanks

Thank you for letting us know the outcome, and I am sorry that you have an issue with the original installation. Let's hope that from now on the problem can be resolved so that you can enjoy your boat.

 

Howard

Edited April 6, 2019 by howardang

[Peter009]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Do I remember correctly ?

 

You were "using a qualified marine engineer with many years of experience in boat installations and the RCD".

What has to be re-done ?

 

Maybe it could be useful for other DIY boat fitters if you could explain what happened.

Hi Alan, 

 

Yes of course, I didn't want to go too much into this due to potential nasty comments on this forum about what has happened and I should of known better etc, but think this is an important point and people need to be aware of what can happen if you do not use the right people as I have made a mistake here.

 

Our marine electrician is absolutely fine and there is no issues with him, the issue is with the gas installer.  Cut a long story short I was told that this person who installed the calor on the boat was a fully qualified BOAT fitter not just a gas fitter and because this person was doing other boats in the same boatyard I believed it to be the case as the company was well known and recommended in the area, which I would point out is full of yachts at the boatyard,  however when I was discussing the water vent outlet going through the gas locker and if this was an issue or not, I sent a picture of the gas locker to a BSS inspector contact I have who saw the gas installation and wanted to know why it was installed that way.  The gas fitter had put the gas pipe on the floor of the locker and through to the main cabin and there was no protection whatsoever of the gas pipe should something fall on it and also there was a hole into the cabin through the gas locker which clearly was not gas tight.  So I have since found out that the so called BOAT gas installer is in fact not qualified to do this at all and is only qualified for caravans and domestic gas, when I asked him about BSS he knew nothing about it or what it meant,  therefore should not of been working on the boat at all.  The gas has been incorrectly installed not following safety or BSS standards and is completely coming out next week and will be reinstalled by a fully qualified boat gas fitter following BSS regulations.  I have got my money back from this person and the gas locker has been re welded, no gas connected for now until resolved.  My lesson has been learnt here, check credentials properly if you cannot install if yourself, which I did not feel confident to do.  However if you do install gas yourself it is really important to follow BSS guidelines as they are there for safety and I do feel that the BSS inspector I have been dealing with has been absolutely brilliant in educating me about the risks.  

Edited April 6, 2019 by Peter009

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi Alan, 

 

Yes of course, I didn't want to go too much into this due to potential nasty comments on this forum about what has happened and I should of known better etc, but think this is an important point and people need to be aware of what can happen if you do not use the right people as I have made a mistake here.

 

Our marine electrician is absolutely fine and there is no issues with him, the issue is with the gas installer.  Cut a long story short I was told that this person who installed the calor on the boat was a fully qualified BOAT fitter not just a gas fitter and because this person was doing other boats in the same boatyard I believed it to be the case as the company was well known and recommended in the area, which I would point out is full of yachts at the boatyard,  however when I was discussing the water vent outlet going through the gas locker and if this was an issue or not, I sent a picture of the gas locker to a BSS inspector contact I have who saw the gas installation and wanted to know why it was installed that way.  The gas fitter had put the gas pipe on the floor of the locker and through to the main cabin and there was no protection whatsoever of the gas pipe should something fall on it and also there was a hole into the cabin through the gas locker which clearly was not gas tight.  So I have since found out that the so called BOAT gas installer is in fact not qualified to do this at all and is only qualified for caravans and domestic gas, when I asked him about BSS he knew nothing about it or what it meant,  therefore should not of been working on the boat at all.  The gas has been incorrectly installed not following safety or BSS standards and is completely coming out next week and will be reinstalled by a fully qualified boat gas fitter following BSS regulations.  I have got my money back from this person and the gas locker has been re welded, no gas connected for now until resolved.  My lesson has been learnt here, check credentials properly if you cannot install if yourself, which I did not feel confident to do.  However if you do install gas yourself rit is eally important to follow BSS guidelines as they are there for safety and I do feel that the BSS inspector I have been dealing with has been absolutely brilliant in educating me about the risks.  

Many thanks for the clear explanation - and just remember that "the man who never made a mistake never made anything".

 

For the benefit of those not aware

 

Any gas-safe engineer carries with him a plastic card (like a driving licence), on it,it shows what qualifications he has and what he is allowed to work on, 

LPG

Mains Gas

Caravans

Domestic property

Boats

etc etc.

 

Always ensure the fitter you have chosen is qualified to work on whatever it is you are asking him to work on.

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

 .  Cut a long story short I was told that this person who installed the calor on the boat was a fully qualified BOAT fitter not just a gas fitter and because this person was doing other boats in the same boatyard 

I think that one of the problems you may have is actually the location of the boat. ie. they are probably not use to working to BSS requirements as they are only found on inland waterways, you can go to sea in anything. How many more canal boat are there in that marina?

[Peter009]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think that one of the problems you may have is actually the location of the boat. ie. they are probably not use to working to BSS requirements as they are only found on inland waterways, you can go to sea in anything. How many more canal boat are there in that marina?

Absolutely that is one of the reasons it is being moved in 5 weeks we have had nothing but issues with the yard, we are the only canal boat in the yard the rest are sea boats, however I am very fortunate in that I am in contact with a fantastic BSS inspector who is helping me along the way and I am passing that info on to the marine electrician etc now.  I also know that had we of been on the canals we would not of been ripped off so much as we have been by anyone we have used in the yard.  Also we brought the boat it was already in the boat yard it would not of been our choice to move her there.

[frahkn]

2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Absolutely that is one of the reasons it is being moved in 5 weeks we have had nothing but issues with the yard, we are the only canal boat in the yard the rest are sea boats, however I am very fortunate in that I am in contact with a fantastic BSS inspector who is helping me along the way and I am passing that info on to the marine electrician etc now.  I also know that had we of been on the canals we would not of been ripped off so much as we have been by anyone we have used in the yard.  Also we brought the boat it was already in the boat yard it would not of been our choice to move her there.

 

I wouldn't bet on that, there are plenty on the canals who will leave their spur marks on your deck and be happy to bill you for the experience.

[Peter009]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

 

I wouldn't bet on that, there are plenty on the canals who will leave their spur marks on your deck and be happy to bill you for the experience.

I am sure that is the case however when you have absolutely no local knowledge where we are it is extremely difficult as it appears most of them know very little about canal boats and spend a lot more time trying to work it out than say someone who does this all the time.  Can't wait to get out of that yard !!

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Many thanks for the clear explanation - and just remember that "the man who never made a mistake never made anything".

 

For the benefit of those not aware

 

Any gas-safe engineer carries with him a plastic card (like a driving licence), on it,it shows what qualifications he has and what he is allowed to work on, 

LPG

Mains Gas

Caravans

Domestic property

Boats

etc etc.

 

Always ensure the fitter you have chosen is qualified to work on whatever it is you are asking him to work on.

Easy enough to say that, but when the Scottish Power sent a fitter to fit my Smart Meter, I quizzed him as to his qualifications, he did not show me any paperwork or card, and admitted he was a gas fitter Certified to fit the Scottish Power smart meter. 

I once asked an electrician how he intended to tackle a particular problem. He put the phone down on me. I have gone through about seven electricians now, and not been 100% happy with any of them. When shove comes to push, they are only interested in getting paid for your job, doing it as quickly and cheaply as they can, end of.

Edited April 6, 2019 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

52 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Easy enough to say that, but when the Scottish Power sent a fitter to fit my Smart Meter, I quizzed him as to his qualifications, he did not show me any paperwork or card, and admitted he was a gas fitter Certified to fit the Scottish Power smart meter. 

I once asked an electrician how he intended to tackle a particular problem. He put the phone down on me. I have gone through about seven electricians now, and not been 100% happy with any of them. When shove comes to push, they are only interested in getting paid for your job, doing it as quickly and cheaply as they can, end of.

You do seem to have an awful lot of problems with people - from House buyers to Electricians.

 

I find people tend to respond to the way they are treated - I wonder if it could be the way you approach folk ?

 

Gas Safe engineers are obliged to show their 'card' if it is requested.

 

Gas Safe Register ID card

All Gas Safe-registered engineers carry an ID card with information on the front and back. Before an engineer does any gas work in your home, always ask to see the engineer's ID card.  On the front of the card, check:

• engineer's photograph
• start and expiry dates
• licence number
• security hologram
• engineer is from the business you contacted

On the back of the card, check:

• engineer's qualification to do gas work you asked them to do
• engineer's qualifications are current

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/gas-safe-register

Edited April 6, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

50 minutes ago, LadyG said:

when the Scottish Power sent a fitter to fit my Smart Meter, I quizzed him as to his qualifications, he did not show me any paperwork or card, and admitted he was a gas fitter Certified to fit the Scottish Power smart meter. 

 

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Gas Safe engineers are obliged to show their 'card' if it is requested.

I’m not sure that a meter fitter has to have a Gas Safe qualification? Can @Mike the Boilerman tell us?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

 

I’m not sure that a meter fitter has to have a Gas Safe qualification? Can @Mike the Boilerman tell us?

Is Gas-Safe applicable in Scotland ?

[LadyG]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You do seem to have an awful lot of problems with people - from House buyers to Electricians.

 

I find people tend to respond to the way they are treated - I wonder if it could be the way you approach folk ?

 

Gas Safe engineers are obliged to show their 'card' if it is requested.

 

Gas Safe Register ID card

All Gas Safe-registered engineers carry an ID card with information on the front and back. Before an engineer does any gas work in your home, always ask to see the engineer's ID card.  On the front of the card, check:

• engineer's photograph
• start and expiry dates
• licence number
• security hologram
• engineer is from the business you contacted

On the back of the card, check:

• engineer's qualification to do gas work you asked them to do
• engineer's qualifications are current

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/gas-safe-register

 I was fine with fitter, he started off as a chef, and when he got married paid for his own training [£6K] to be an gas fitter. His wife of six years is a wonderful person, and has made his life wonderful, he is still in love and they will live happily ever after. We had a great craic, there was no "issues", I just asked him about his job, he is "on contract".

I'm just making the point that though he had an identity card, and came by appointment, I would never have thought to ask to see his "qualifications". I would not know what he needed. It just came up in conversation.

[LadyG]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is Gas-Safe applicable in Scotland ?

We invented North Sea Gas, and gave it away to The English. I've seen vans with "Corgi", but then I;ve seen vans plastered with boasts, like "good electrical work! lol.

.Any one with any sense gets out of this place and earns a living elsewhere. Those who stay, verge on the useless.

Shetlanders made sure they got a dollar for every barrel or whatever, and now have super facilities and so on, and a great big capital fund.

Edited April 6, 2019 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

We invented North Sea Gas, and gave it away to The English. 

The Shetlanders made sure they got a dollar for every barrel or whatever, and now have super facilities and so on, an a great big capital fund.

No you didn't we produced it to pay for you looking for it