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Standard gas cookers


Cosmic

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I was just about to pop to B&Q to get myself a gas cooker when I decided to check online to make sure it was compatible with bottled gas.

 

What I found in the manual was a very blunt statement that it is not sutable for installation in any kind of boat, anywhere, including on inland waterways, although it can be used in a static caravan.

 

It did occur to me that, because it needs a 240V mains supply, some features won't work. That probably means the clock, timer, electric igniter etc., but I can live without things like that. But does that mean that the oven and hob won't work too?

 

In short, what I'm asking is whether a standard household gas cooker (assuming it can use bottled gas) can be used on a boat or whether ther is something fundamental that makes them completely incompatible with use on a boat.

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Provided your cooker is convertible to LPG (usually needs a change of jets) then no, there is nothing intrinsic about an LPG cooker preventing it from being used in a boat. You may well run into insurance and BSS problems though if the manual with it specifically states yours in particular must not be installed in a boat. 

 

Bear in mind domestic cookers are usually 600mm deep, front to back, while boat cookers are 550 or 500mm, so it probably won't fit anyway.

 

 

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There are a few still around that don't need mains power and are convertible and are 500mm wide.  I recently bought a Hotpoint HAG51P. Didn't see any particular warnings against boat installation.

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6 minutes ago, Cosmic said:

Thanks, Mike. It sounds as if it could lead to too many complications, so I'll have to think about getting one specifically designed for boat use.

There is one on Ebay just now, never used, 

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Make sure the cooker you pick has flame failure devices on all the jets. It won't pass the boat safety scheme without them. Could be a reason why the cooker @Cosmic was looking at said not to be used on a boat. Some cookers need 240V for a fan that prevents certain parts from overheating when the oven, or grill is on. Not a good idea to operate without this working.

 

Jen

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10 minutes ago, DaveP said:

There are a few still around that don't need mains power and are convertible and are 500mm wide.  I recently bought a Hotpoint HAG51P. Didn't see any particular warnings against boat installation.

 

There are plenty around 500mm wide, it is the depth front-to-back that is almost universally 600mm on domestic cookers. And the depth matters A LOT in many boat galley designs. 600mm deep sticks out two or three inches beyond the front of the worktop each side, and looks stupid, and gets right in the way.

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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I recall that the oven I used to have at home wouldn't come on unless the timer was set, so I suspect there could be quite a few silly little niggles, in addition to the serious concerns Mike raised. That's part of the reason I think it'll be best to get something designedto work on a boat.

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1 hour ago, Cosmic said:

I recall that the oven I used to have at home wouldn't come on unless the timer was set, so I suspect there could be quite a few silly little niggles, in addition to the serious concerns Mike raised. That's part of the reason I think it'll be best to get something designedto work on a boat.

Your wallet will pay dearly for that decision. 

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Just browse the retailer's websites, all the details will be there. First of course the dimensions must be right, often you can filter your search on dimensions. Secondly of course it must be suitable for LPG, or able to be converted. Both of these of course you knew. But the third bit of info you need, is that it must be shown as suitable for use in multi-occupier dwellings or flats (most are) because to be classified as suitable they must be fitted with flame failure sensors.

 

We had a New World cooker, it was useless, especially the grill, when I said as much to New World customer service the girl just agreed with me. I sold it on eBay and bought a Cannon which we've been very happy with.

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5 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Make sure the cooker you pick has flame failure devices on all the jets. It won't pass the boat safety scheme without them. Could be a reason why the cooker @Cosmic was looking at said not to be used on a boat. Some cookers need 240V for a fan that prevents certain parts from overheating when the oven, or grill is on. Not a good idea to operate without this working.

 

Jen

I‘ve a cooker without flame failure devices, yet it passes the BSS each time. 

I guess because the cooker was fitted before that safety standard was introduced? Or the cooker predates the introduction of such a feature?

 

 

(I would prefer to have the flame failure devices and hope to replace the cooker for a smaller one later in the year.)

 

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17 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I‘ve a cooker without flame failure devices, yet it passes the BSS each time. 

I guess because the cooker was fitted before that safety standard was introduced? Or the cooker predates the introduction of such a feature?

 

 

(I would prefer to have the flame failure devices and hope to replace the cooker for a smaller one later in the year.)

 

If your cooker is very old, pre 2000 installation it doesn't apply. It may just be the tester didn't notice. Happened to a friend with the hob on their boat. No flame failure fitted, but sailed through the BSS exam. They replaced it rather than run the risk in future.

 

Section 8.7.1

Check all LPG and liquid‐fuelled
appliances for the presence of flame
supervision devices.
For any LPG appliance not fitted with
flame supervision device(s) seek to
determine from the owner, or from
available documentary evidence, the
date the appliance was installed.

 

For LPG appliances:
All the burners and pilot lights of LPG appliances installed on or after
3 January 2000 must be fitted with a device that automatically shuts
off the LPG supply if the burner flame fails.
LPG appliances installed before 3 January 2000 must be fitted with a
device that automatically shuts off the LPG supply if the burner flame
fails on:
• the burners on catalytic appliances; and,
• appliances with continuously‐burning flames; and,
• pilot light burners.

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1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If your cooker is very old, pre 2000 installation it doesn't apply. It may just be the tester didn't notice. Happened to a friend with the hob on their boat. No flame failure fitted, but sailed through the BSS exam. They replaced it rather than run the risk in future.

 

Section 8.7.1

Check all LPG and liquid‐fuelled
appliances for the presence of flame
supervision devices.
For any LPG appliance not fitted with
flame supervision device(s) seek to
determine from the owner, or from
available documentary evidence, the
date the appliance was installed.

 

For LPG appliances:
All the burners and pilot lights of LPG appliances installed on or after
3 January 2000 must be fitted with a device that automatically shuts
off the LPG supply if the burner flame fails.
LPG appliances installed before 3 January 2000 must be fitted with a
device that automatically shuts off the LPG supply if the burner flame
fails on:
• the burners on catalytic appliances; and,
• appliances with continuously‐burning flames; and,
• pilot light burners.

Yes, it’s probably pre 2000. 

 

But how would the tester have known when the cooker was installed?(apart from the muck that dates back to the last century/millennium)

what’s to stop me swopping this old cooker for another old cooker?

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Goliath said:

Yes, it’s probably pre 2000. 

 

But how would the tester have known when the cooker was installed?(apart from the muck that dates back to the last century/millennium)

 

 

 

 

 

 

By asking you.

Quote

For any LPG appliance not fitted with
flame supervision device(s) seek to
determine from the owner, or from
available documentary evidence, the
date the appliance was installed.

 

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

what’s to stop me swopping this old cooker for another old cooker?

Only your honesty. What would be the point of swapping an old knackered cooker for another old knackered cooker?

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13 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

By asking you.

 

Only your honesty. What would be the point of swapping an old knackered cooker for another old knackered cooker?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not looking to bypass the Bss.

 

I do like the look of them old enamaled cookers. Forget the name of them. Very simple with a hob, open grill and small oven. The sort of thing you might see in an old VW camper. And they take up less room than a full standing cooker. 

 

Anyway, got my eye on a posh cooker which will meet the latest standards. 

Edited by Goliath
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28 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yes, it’s probably pre 2000. 

 

But how would the tester have known when the cooker was installed?(apart from the muck that dates back to the last century/millennium)

what’s to stop me swopping this old cooker for another old cooker?


It used to be that the serial numbers of installed equipment were recorded on supporting documentaton for the BSS, so they could see if what was there 4 years ago still was, or whether it had been swapped with something else.

 

Whether that is sill true in any way with the new style BSS documentation I have no idea though.

It is genuinely surprising how often you see boaters trying to flog old Vannette (and similar) hobs that pre-date the 2000 requirement and do not have Flame Failure Devices.  By the rules these cannot be installed in any other boat, but it doesn't seem to stop people buying them.

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