Movin' on Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 My recently acquired HR2 isn't the best starter in the world it starts but not as energetically as my DM2 or 2LW used to and I wondered if I'm missing a point - I don't use this (yet) can someone explain how the overload stop supposed to be used??? It appears to be spring loaded so you pull it up and it springs back do you hold it open ???? 12v system with one battery in good condition and short wiring runs all recently checked by a good electrician...……….. Engine itself is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Silly question, maybe, but do you start it with compression on, or do you spin it up without compression, and then throw the levers? On both our HA2s, for a cold start I invariably do the latter, and both always start absolutely immediately. I never ever use the over-fuelling mechanism Both will start easily enough from cold with compression on, but it has always seemed sensible to me to not do so. This was also the advice of the person who has now rebuilt 2 HAs for us. HAs are about the easiest starting engines ever, in my experience, and HRs are so similar, I can't imagine they will be much different. I guess your choice of oil would to some degree affect how easily they turn over cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 You pull the cold start button up, the rack jumps across underneath the stop. When the engine starts, the governor pushes the rack back and the cold start button drops down Your Gardner would have done a similar thing And put some revs on Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movin' on Posted March 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Hi, I have tried both - and compression off is easier - I think I am probably not running/starting on high enough revs but was curious as to the way to use the "mechanism" - my last 2 set ups were 24v starting so perhaps that's why I am noticing the difference also I understand that the blackstone box creates drag. Its not that it doesn't start it just doesn't start crisply and doesn't inspire confidence even though it gets there in the end also MY impression is that it might be over fuelling without the lever in use but I am assured its not by both Jono and Ian at JD - not a major problem just trying to canvass opinion from experienced hands...………. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Yes, if the rack is a little sticky for any reason the small amount of spring tension available to push it past the excess fuel stop may not be enough. So as Richard says open the throttle. I would start on flat out and very quickly reduce to idle as it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movin' on Posted March 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, RLWP said: You pull the cold start button up, the rack jumps across underneath the stop. When the engine starts, the governor pushes the rack back and the cold start button drops down Your Gardner would have done a similar thing And put some revs on Richard When I pull it up it springs back immediately so has it "jumped" without me knowing?? Revs might be the issue as I don't like overrevving cold engines Thanks Just now, Tony Brooks said: Yes, if the rack is a little sticky for any reason the small amount of spring tension available to push it past the excess fuel stop may not be enough. So as Richard says open the throttle. I would start on flat out and very quickly reduce to idle as it started. Sounds like revs is the issue …………………... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Halsey said: When I pull it up it springs back immediately so has it "jumped" without me knowing?? Yes. The Lister is a very sensible engine and hides all the important bits from users who might want to fiddle. So all you can do is lift the button and let go. The engine does the rest Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Halsey said: When I pull it up it springs back immediately so has it "jumped" without me knowing?? Revs might be the issue as I don't like overrevving cold engines Thanks Sounds like revs is the issue …………………... I would never over rev a cold engine but you will have a few seconds as it fires and starts to rev up to get the speed back to idle. If it were over fuelling you would be very likely to get more smoke, especially black at higher revs/loads but in marine use the problem is that might also be an over large prop. During normal running the rack would be no where near the excess fuel stop. It would only go there if something held the engine revs down so the rack was delivering maximum fuel to try to rev the engine up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: I would never over rev a cold engine Bear in mind, this is a big Lister. Most owners like to set the idle speed so the engine gives a nice chug chug - chug chug - chug chug... at around 400 RPM. The designed idle speed is up around 600 RPM, so raising the revs is just taking the engine up to slightly above the correct figure Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRLMK38 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 12 hours ago, Halsey said: Hi, I have tried both - and compression off is easier - I think I am probably not running/starting on high enough revs but was curious as to the way to use the "mechanism" - my last 2 set ups were 24v starting so perhaps that's why I am noticing the difference also I understand that the blackstone box creates drag. Its not that it doesn't start it just doesn't start crisply and doesn't inspire confidence even though it gets there in the end also MY impression is that it might be over fuelling without the lever in use but I am assured its not by both Jono and Ian at JD - not a major problem just trying to canvass opinion from experienced hands...………. It's not a Gardner, get yourself some EasyStart! ..... (it's 2LW karma) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: I would never over rev a cold engine but you will have a few seconds as it fires and starts to rev up to get the speed back to idle. That rather depends on how quickly you can wind the speed wheel back down if you are inside the engine room! For both my boats it is quite a slow process to wind the speed down by trying to rotate a relatively thin rod by hand. If you start the engine with the speed significantly wound oin, it will race away quite rapidly long before you can back it off. As a consequence I would always try very hard not to do it. I have been advised that even a few seconds of racing away before the oil has fully started to way around things is particularly poor for longevity of the engine. I'm not familiar with HRs, but would be surprised if they are significantly poorer starters than HAs. Both my HA2s start from cold on a cold day very easily, and I have never needed to use the over-fuelling mechanism, (ever). Richard's point though is very valid that probably most of us have idle set somewhat lower than a munufacturers recommended figure, so opening the speed wheel to at least the point that it will rev at what the manufacturer expected is almost certainly the way to go. Do Lister recommend that HRs are set to a faster idle than HAs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: Do Lister recommend that HRs are set to a faster idle than HAs? The things I do for you... Naturally, Listers didn't declare these things in a handy table, they're buried in the manual HA/B speed range 600-1800 or 700-2000 (pretty sure the second set is HB) HR 750-maximum (which is probably 2200) Without doing a more comprehensive read through the manuals, that's all I have Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, RLWP said: The things I do for you... Naturally, Listers didn't declare these things in a handy table, they're buried in the manual HA/B speed range 600-1800 or 700-2000 (pretty sure the second set is HB) HR 750-maximum (which is probably 2200) Without doing a more comprehensive read through the manuals, that's all I have Richard Yes, I think the maxima are.... HA 1800 HB 2000 HR 2200 I bet most HRs in narrow boats are idling at a great deal less than 750, so if trying to start one, I reckon it is wise to wind the speed wheel up to the point it would be doing that kind of RPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, alan_fincher said: That rather depends on how quickly you can wind the speed wheel back down if you are inside the engine room! For both my boats it is quite a slow process to wind the speed down by trying to rotate a relatively thin rod by hand. If you start the engine with the speed significantly wound oin, it will race away quite rapidly long before you can back it off. As a consequence I would always try very hard not to do it. I have been advised that even a few seconds of racing away before the oil has fully started to way around things is particularly poor for longevity of the engine. I'm not familiar with HRs, but would be surprised if they are significantly poorer starters than HAs. Both my HA2s start from cold on a cold day very easily, and I have never needed to use the over-fuelling mechanism, (ever). Richard's point though is very valid that probably most of us have idle set somewhat lower than a munufacturers recommended figure, so opening the speed wheel to at least the point that it will rev at what the manufacturer expected is almost certainly the way to go. Do Lister recommend that HRs are set to a faster idle than HAs? In that case set to full throttle, push/pull thee excess fuel device and wind the speed back to around cruising speed, then start it. That would ensure a sticky rack would have some chance of going to excess fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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