Cruising the Thames

[Col_T]

For CRT rivers, I can get notifications of closure due to strong currents / high flow levels. Is there such a site for EA controlled rivers? Particularly interested in the Thames. 

[Tony Brooks]

Yes - http://riverconditions.environment-agency.gov.uk/

 

However the EA can not legally close  the Thames to navigation, they can only advise. If you ignore that advice and  you have an accident your insurance company may have a view about your cover.

[Col_T]

Thanks for this, Tony. Exactly the thing I was hoping for.

[Scholar Gypsy]

There is a separate system for the Anglian waterways, esp the Nene and the Bedford Ouse upstream of Earith. On the EA website somewhere.

 

There is a text / email notification service that you should subscribe to.

 

The Nene in particular is closed to navigation, at some locks the mitre (V) gates are locked open and the guillotine at the other end is opened. Navigation then completely impossible ...

 

https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/ is my favourite for real time data, some flow but mostly levels i think

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

The Nene in particular is closed to navigation, at some locks the mitre (V) gates are locked open and the guillotine at the other end is opened. Navigation then completely impossible ...

 

Being a river is it not a public navigation that like the Thames, cannot be closed?

 

I'd have thought locks open both ends meant in the right sort of craft one could still navigate. Are you saying you are not allowed to? 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Being a river is it not a public navigation that like the Thames, cannot be closed?

 

I'd have thought locks open both ends meant in the right sort of craft one could still navigate. Are you saying you are not allowed to? 

 

 

Be my guest ....

 

I guess going downstream in a whitewater kayak should be feasible. The last time I saw a reversed lock the headroom was about three feet.

 

Some Great Ouse photos here

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140328105253/http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Strong_Stream_Advice_Newsletter_Issue_1.pdf

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Be my guest ....

 

I guess going downstream in a whitewater kayak should be feasible. The last time I saw a reversed lock the headroom was about three feet.

 

Some Great Ouse photos here

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140328105253/http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Strong_Stream_Advice_Newsletter_Issue_1.pdf

 

 

So it looks to me as though you don't actually know if the navigation is legally closed, only that it is impractical to pass through the locks.

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

So it looks to me as though you don't actually know if the navigation is legally closed, only that it is impractical to pass through the locks.

 

Correct.

[dmr]

27 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

So it looks to me as though you don't actually know if the navigation is legally closed, only that it is impractical to pass through the locks.

 

Having done the Nene I would like to say two things,

 

1 It is a truly wonderful river, probably the best.

 

2 I would not want to be on it in any sort of flow, especially going downstream, they did like to build low arched bridges at silly angles.

 

.................Dave

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Be my guest ....

 

I guess going downstream in a whitewater kayak should be feasible. The last time I saw a reversed lock the headroom was about three feet.

 

Some Great Ouse photos here

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140328105253/http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Strong_Stream_Advice_Newsletter_Issue_1.pdf

I was thinking a man in a barrel 

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Be my guest ....

 

I guess going downstream in a whitewater kayak should be feasible. The last time I saw a reversed lock the headroom was about three feet.

 

Some Great Ouse photos here

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140328105253/http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Strong_Stream_Advice_Newsletter_Issue_1.pdf

 

Thanks for the link, just succeeded in opening it. (It wouldn't respond to clicks for me earlier.)

 

I see what you mean! I note too they never mention closing the navigation, only that they issue 'strong stream' advice.

[Scholar Gypsy]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Thanks for the link, just succeeded in opening it. (It wouldn't respond to clicks for me earlier.)

 

I see what you mean! I note too they never mention closing the navigation, only that they issue 'strong stream' advice.

Here's the alert that was in force 12th-19th March, note the bit I have highlighted.

 

"This is a boating advice message from the Environment Agency.

 

STRONG STREAM ADVICE is in force: River Advice for Boaters on the River Nene.

 

This River Advice for Boaters is: River Nene between Northampton and Peterborough for the purpose of navigation.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Locks along the river may be closed to navigation.

 

The Environment Agency strongly advises against attempting to navigate on the River.

 

River flows are above normal, too fast for safe manoeuvring and headroom at some sites will be restricted.

 

Boats should be moored properly to accommodate changing river levels. 

 

In an emergency, please contact the Environment Agency on 0800 80 70 60."

 

 

 

 

[Jess--]

For the thames we always check here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/river-thames-conditions-closures-restrictions-and-lock-closures

also if you have a look on there you will find instructions on how to subscribe to the notices via email (look under the keep up to date section)

[OldGoat]

M'lud Judge raises an interesting point.

On the Thames the EA doesn't prevent you from navigating in bad conditions - I've always assumed that was because of the  PRN laid down in Magna Carta - but does that cover all navigable rivers; methinks probably not.

Can anyone cast more light on this point.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

M'lud Judge raises an interesting point.

On the Thames the EA doesn't prevent you from navigating in bad conditions - I've always assumed that was because of the  PRN laid down in Magna Carta - but does that cover all navigable rivers; methinks probably not.

Can anyone cast more light on this point.

 

When C&RT close the flood locks (and padlock them) on the Trent you cannot navigate, so, they are 'closing the navigation'.

[OldGoat]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When C&RT close the flood locks (and padlock them) on the Trent you cannot navigate, so, they are 'closing the navigation'.

But, but, but don't CaRT 'own' the navigation as they do the Severn, Lee etc and is there a PRN on those rivers?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

But, but, but don't CaRT 'own' the navigation as they do the Severn, Lee etc and is there a PRN on those rivers?

Feb. 25 1265

Commission to the said Gilbert, with those whom &c, to enquire touching a complaint made on behalf of the burgesses of Nottingham that whereas the waterway [iter navium*] in the water of Trent between the town of Nottingham and Thorkese [Torskey] ought to be of the breadth of one perch on each side of the middle (fill) of that water, certain persons of those parts have raised weirs in divers places in the said stream without their assent and thereby so narrowed the waterway that ships cannot get to the said town as they used to do; and to hear and correct the said trespasses and that inquisition &c.

Henry III, vol. 5, p. 480

(*“iter navium” translates as “route for ships”)
 

 

This document makes a "good read"

 

Summary :

The above represents the overwhelming weight of evidence that public rights of navigation existed in all rivers with no constraint other than the practicality of navigation by vessels of a given size.  There is, quite simply, no evidence from Statute, Royal Commission or court case that challenges this. Public navigation rights can only be modified or extinguished by Parliament, either directly or through delegated powers. There has been no such “due legal process” to change the law (if there had been, lawyers or historians could say what it was) so the same public navigation rights must still exist today. 

 

PRN On Rivers.pdf

[OldGoat]

Thanks for the above - loots to read and several cross-references, may take some time to digest...