Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
starman

Arctic cable - do I need to use it?

Featured Posts

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

That's the sort of detail which lay behind my generalisation. 'Course, that's just Screwfix - spending greater time on more research might unearth even bigger savings! :D

The law of diminishing returns, isn't it?

Absolutely. I just went to the Screwfix site out of laziness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Absolutely. I just went to the Screwfix site out of laziness. 

Which might also be why I went straight for Artic flex! :D

 

From Screwfix! :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe cable can be described as articulated.  Pythons can be reticulated.  Cold places tend to be in the Arctic.  But artics are best kept in the inside lane of the motorway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

But artics are best kept in the inside lane of the motorway.

Like on the Autobahn or the section of dual carriageway at southern end of the A42?  Would that they were - imagine: an end to traffic back ups behind continual "elephant races" where 56 mph passes 53 mph until the next incline change - where they swap back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Like on the Autobahn or the section of dual carriageway at southern end of the A42?  Would that they were - imagine: an end to traffic back ups behind continual "elephant races" where 56 mph passes 53 mph until the next incline change - where they swap back. 

I was on a short stretch of the A14 last week and for a stretch of a couple of miles they had ‘No HGVs in the outside lane’ signs. At last, thought I, we’ve taken a leaf out of France’s book of the road. Sadly, the signs ended almost as soon as they started. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Anyway, is “arctic” actually a spec or a protected trademark? I don’t think so. So depending on which “arctic” you bought, it might be better or worse than “non-arctic” for a fixed installation in terms of its sheathing quality etc.

In the old days of BS specifications (now replaced by EN European specs) 'Arctic' was a reference for a specific grade of PVC sheathed cable which retained its flexibility down to -40C (-40F).

Whilst 'normal' PVC became brittle at around 0C.

The 'arctic cable' original use was primarily for temporary traffic lights at road works.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Paul C said:

Yeah but if it doesn't actually offer any tangible advantage in a situation (for example, the cheaper one can "do it" and the advantages of the more costly one wouldn't be exploited in this use case) why pay more for the sake of it? AIUI if you're not bending and wiring up wires in severe cold; or the wiring layout is sensibly planned out so there are no sharp bends anyway, you'll not perceive any advantage except perhaps if you're chucking it round during putting it into and out of boxes during the fitting.

Yes, but if you buy a reel longer than you need (usually the cost per meter gets better as the length increases) for your inside install, what is left makes a nice shore lead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm......well yes true but its a different consideration.

 

If its possible to buy the length of cable for each purpose, and one of those purposes can be done cheaper, normally it would be cheaper overall. If its possible to "consolidate" a number of slightly different required specs and buy in bulk (at a significant saving) a quantity of cable to satisfy all those specs (bearing in mind that some uses it would be overspecified), then.......yes..........its possible that the cost saving by consolodating into one bulk purchase, outweighs the cost saving by having each use case correctly specified and the cheapest for each use is obtained in the right quantity.

 

For example when I wired some mains on my boat, I didn't need 100m I needed about 15m, and it didn't have a shoreline connection (just batteries and inverter to provide the mains) so an 85m shoreline would have been as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

 

YMMV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing to remember is that many inverters today have a power boost function so theoretically you can have the 16 amps from the shore and almost as much again from your inverter. Unlikely for more than a few minutes, (kettle on with microwave and immersion) but it is easily possible.  Some people now are fitting 5 kW inverters as well, don't think they are real off grid boater,s more floating flat dwellers , because that sort of power out of your batteries is going to be very hard to recharge even in summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently bought cable for fitting a 240v socket to eventually run off a 2kVA inverter. Went for 2.5 sq mm flex. Judging by the thickness of the cable and the tight coil it was supplied in I reckon I'll have more trouble straightening it out in between the bends.

 

JP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I recently bought cable for fitting a 240v socket to eventually run off a 2kVA inverter. Went for 2.5 sq mm flex. Judging by the thickness of the cable and the tight coil it was supplied in I reckon I'll have more trouble straightening it out in between the bends.

 

JP

It’ll be softer when the weather warms up :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

This true - but methinks hardly the key issue when buying a bit of cable for your boat, where perhaps the bigger threat to a timely and effective solution is procrastination and over-thinking! 

I took your advice - I stopped overthinking and procrastinating, decided I didn’t want to wait a day for a 50m reel of arctic, went to Screwfix and bought 10m of white for a tenner. If I need a bit more I can buy another ten - or find a bit in my ‘might be useful’ box. 

Didnt save anything per metre but I dont end up with 30+m of unused arctic (I’ve already got a v long shoreline ?). 

 

PS ‘overthinking’ seems to be something that happens with age - in years gone by I just cracked on, now I stand and fret. Should be the other way round really - crack on when you’re older and experienced.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometoymes oi sits and tinks and sometoymes oi just sits.

Edited by bizzard
  • Happy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’ll be softer when the weather warms up :)

That's why I haven't installed it yet :P

Edited by Captain Pegg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Generally people work on the limit of the shore connector, which for most is 16A. Therefore if the wiring can take 16A, which 2.5mm can but 1.5 can’t, you aren’t going to run into any problems.

1.5 arctic cable is rated at 16 amps so why can't it be used on a 16amp supply? ;)

 

Edited by Loddon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Loddon said:

1.5 arctic cable is rated at 16 amps so why can't it be used on a 16amp supply?

 

It’s only 16A in free air. Hidden behind panels, probably surrounded by insulation it’s considerably derated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’ll be softer when the weather warms up :)

or if you put 100A through it for an hour or so. with the cables kept warm under a blanket! 

 

PS: don't try this at home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Loddon said:

1.5 arctic cable is rated at 16 amps so why can't it be used on a 16amp supply?

 

I borrowed a cheap quality marine power lead a while ago, had it in a loose coil, ran a heater and 'usual' boat stuff and it became warm to the touch. That's why I used 2.5mm  when fitting out the boat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, OldGoat said:

I borrowed a cheap quality marine power lead a while ago, had it in a loose coil, ran a heater and 'usual' boat stuff and it became warm to the touch. That's why I used 2.5mm  when fitting out the boat...

Should have placed in a figure of eight, much better than a coil loose or not ;)

20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’s only 16A in free air. Hidden behind panels, probably surrounded by insulation it’s considerably derated. 

Actually 1.5 is 21amp in free air. Derated to 16amp because of the blue/yellow insulation ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Actually 1.5 is 21amp in free air. Derated to 16amp because of the blue/yellow insulation ;)

Derated to 14A in an insulated wall. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Well, there's a putdown for you.

Depends what you mean by value....

I must admit I dont see arctic as value, what does it do that any other 3 core flex doesnt do?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, starman said:

I took your advice - I stopped overthinking and procrastinating, decided I didn’t want to wait a day for a 50m reel of arctic, went to Screwfix and bought 10m of white for a tenner. If I need a bit more I can buy another ten - or find a bit in my ‘might be useful’ box. 

Didnt save anything per metre but I dont end up with 30+m of unused arctic (I’ve already got a v long shoreline ?). 

 

PS ‘overthinking’ seems to be something that happens with age - in years gone by I just cracked on, now I stand and fret. Should be the other way round really - crack on when you’re older and experienced.  

I only know that 'cos I fall for it too!  ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Loddon said:

1.5 arctic cable is rated at 16 amps so why can't it be used on a 16amp supply? ;)

 

You do worry me sometimes! A cable doesn’t have a rating per se, it has a rating taking into account the type of installation. So yes 1.5 can take 16A in free air. However when it is installed within an insulated space (between cabin lining and insulation being typical on a narrowboat) you have to derate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Well, there's a putdown for you.

Depends what you mean by value....

You don't think your comment that he shouldn't be boating was a more cutting put down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally on a boat I’d use HO7 rated flex over artic or “household” flex...not the cheapest but has tough but flexible sleeving. Given you only should be buying it once the cost is the least of your problems. 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.