max size boat for all network

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

When I bought my boat, I didn't even think about where it could go.  So imagine how relieved I was when I needed it to come up north with me for a job and I was able to get there!  A go anywhere boat is a kind of future proofing.

Easy enough to sell and buy a different one though. 

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Easy enough to sell and buy a different one though. 

Nooooo, that would be like abandoning a baby!  They are not disposable items, they're part of the family.  Also, selling them can be long winded and traumatic, and when I found out I had to move, I had about 3 weeks until the job started.

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Just for one as a for instance For example, Stainforth and Keadby states 65 foot by 17 foor odd, when in reality a 70 foot narrowboat can use the canal. A huge difference when narrowboating.

 

Corrected that for you.

 

Jeez, my Ingerlish teacher would be spinning in her grave to read wot u just rote. 

[Tumshie]

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Easy enough to sell and buy a different one though. 

True but surely one of the advantages of having a boat is that you don't have to sell it when you want to go somewhere else other wise you might as well just buy a house. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Tumshie

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

True but surly one of the advantages of having a boat is that you don't have to sell it when you want to go somewhere else other wise you might as well just buy a house. 

It aint that simple. Boats are like cars, different sizes and types differ with differing things in yer life. Being stuck on some miniscule 57 footer is daft if yer living on the vast majority of the waterways when a whole boat can be purchased. Besides houses are for hoildays, not living on. Until we binned the last house as we didnt use it enough we always lived on the boat and had days off and holidays in the house, makes moocho more sense than the weird way of living in a house and time off on a boat.

[MtB]

 

The obvious answer is to have several boats, dotted around the system....

 

 

[Sea Dog]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The obvious answer is to have several boats, dotted around the system....

 

 

Then you can dot yourself around the system fixing them all!

 

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Boats are like cars, different sizes and types differ with differing things in yer life.

I do like the idea of experiencing different types of boats. I don't want to commit myself to any one idea till I've done more on the canal rather than just wandering about beside them. ?

 

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The obvious answer is to have several boats, dotted around the system....

 

 

Smarty Pants 

 

 

[cuthound]

Another thing to remember is that canal boats are not made to precision engineering standards, so a boat sold as a sixty footer could actually be 58 foot or 62 foot when measured properly. 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Another thing to remember is that canal boats are not made to precision engineering standards, so a boat sold as a sixty footer could actually be 58 foot or 62 foot when measured properly. 

 

And of course, what counts as 'properly'? 

 

A boat in cruising trim with button fender on the bow and rudder straight is probably 2ft longer than the same boat with the fenders lifted and rudder at full deflection. 

[cuthound]

Properly in my book means putting the boat against a straight mooring and carefully marking the extremities of the steel hull (stem post to end of rudder) on to the mooring. My mooring is paved so I can use the edges of the paving slabs as a guide for apiece of wood to ensure it is at right angles to the boat for greater accuracy.

 

Then measure between the markings for an accurate measurement.

 

For completeness you can repeat the exercise from stem button to tipcat, so you know the length with and without fenders.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Properly in my book means putting the boat against a straight mooring and carefully marking the extremities of the steel hull (stem post to end of rudder) on to the mooring. My mooring is paved so I can use the edges of the paving slabs as a guide for apiece of wood to ensure it is at right angles to the boat for greater accuracy.

 

Then measure between the markings for an accurate measurement.

 

For completeness you can repeat the exercise from stem button to tipcat, so you know the length with and without fenders.

 

That's not what CRT say you should do when applying for a licence...

 

 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

Properly in my book means putting the boat against a straight mooring and carefully marking the extremities of the steel hull (stem post to end of rudder) on to the mooring. My mooring is paved so I can use the edges of the paving slabs as a guide for apiece of wood to ensure it is at right angles to the boat for greater accuracy.

 

Then measure between the markings for an accurate measurement.

 

For completeness you can repeat the exercise from stem button to tipcat, so you know the length with and without fenders.

For those who want to go oop norrf from Nottingham on a longish boat this could be crucial. I took my Hudson seventy footer thro Thorne lock, touching both ends, had it been an inch or so longer it simply would not have passed thro the lock. I never measured the boat so how long was it? 70 Foot dead? I doubt it. I would have been happy enough to go round Trent end, indeed I at first thought I would have to go that way, it was a bonus getting thro Thorne lock but many people wouldnt want to do Trent end in a bathtub/skip and I dont blame them.

[MtB]

And then there are those hire boats with a button fender at the stern, mounted on a 12" steel projection welded to the counter hoops......

[Mike Todd]

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if you could get through there would probably be more. The EA didn't build it any longer because no longer boats were going up there, they couldnt because of the short lock, now no one goes past Brandon because those that would can't get there. Chicken and egg

We we did get there (ie before the lock) last summer - a pleasant trip as is all of the Fen area from Northampton onwards, but quite variable and you do need to plan ahead for basic services.

 

I think that is the only lock on the system and (apart from Basingstoke and anything north of Selby - we did try, for both, honestly guv!) cannot recall not passing through anything at a nominal 60ft (two different boats) One or two of the northern ones, already mentioned, were a tad nail biting but still worth making the effort. But don't try it if not in full mental capacity (tinners beware) as you do need to pay close attention in the tighter fits.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mike Todd

[cuthound]

19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And then there are those hire boats with a button fender at the stern, mounted on a 12" steel projection welded to the counter hoops......

 

Or indeed historic ice breakers with a huge proboscis on the front ?

[magictime]

13 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Depends what you mean by go anywhere - but anything longer than about  57 feet cuts out two of the three cross pennine routes, I'll leave others to discuss what the precise length is. Personally if I was planning to cruise these routes I would stick at 55 so as not to be stressing through the shorter locks.

I'd second that. Our boat is 55ft and with most of our cruising being done in Yorkshire, I'm glad it's no longer. I'm sure you can squeeze through some of those shorter locks in boats of closer to 60ft, and maybe that would be fine if you just wanted to 'do' those canals once and tick them off your list, but I can't imagine it being a remotely comfortable or pleasurable experience. Even in some of the leakier 62ft locks on the L&L, a 55ft boat suits me fine.

7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Being stuck on some miniscule 57 footer is daft if yer living on the vast majority of the waterways when a whole boat can be purchased.

Hmm. For 'vast majority of', read 'southern half of'.

 

Yes, there are 'only' two short-ish waterways with sub-60ft locks, but they do play a pretty crucial role in joining up the major northern routes. If you can't get through the Huddersfield Broad and the Calder and Hebble, you can't travel between the Rochdale, the Huddersfield Narrow, and the Aire and Calder (and hence the Leeds-Liverpool) without going hundreds of miles out of your way.

[mrsmelly]

37 minutes ago, magictime said:

I'd second that. Our boat is 55ft and with most of our cruising being done in Yorkshire, I'm glad it's no longer. I'm sure you can squeeze through some of those shorter locks in boats of closer to 60ft, and maybe that would be fine if you just wanted to 'do' those canals once and tick them off your list, but I can't imagine it being a remotely comfortable or pleasurable experience. Even in some of the leakier 62ft locks on the L&L, a 55ft boat suits me fine.

Hmm. For 'vast majority of', read 'southern half of'.

 

Yes, there are 'only' two short-ish waterways with sub-60ft locks, but they do play a pretty crucial role in joining up the major northern routes. If you can't get through the Huddersfield Broad and the Calder and Hebble, you can't travel between the Rochdale, the Huddersfield Narrow, and the Aire and Calder (and hence the Leeds-Liverpool) without going hundreds of miles out of your way.

you are quite correct in that a short boat is required if you only cruise small areas all oop norrf. been there done that. However in my thirty years liveaboard experience I find having the extra space and just missing out ten percent of the waterways is by far for us the best way to go. We have travelled on our last two narrowboats  ( 70 and 68 feet ) everywhere between Leeds and London/Bristol and all points in between, the area is huge without compromising on comfort. No we cant do a couple of small canals or the L and L but having done them many times before in short boats we find missing them out and having much more space/comfort levels is what we prefer. Our first boat was 56 foot for the first five years, then we had a 42 footer then a 57 footer for more years. I will not be going back to one.

[Scholar Gypsy]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if you could get through there would probably be more. The EA didn't build it any longer because no longer boats were going up there, they couldnt because of the short lock, now no one goes past Brandon because those that would can't get there. Chicken and egg

The current plans for restoration of the river to Thetford would involve rebuilding the lock at Brandon to a more normal length. 

 

In terms of short locks, a couple more oddities:

 

* Welches Dam is 45' I think. Not currently navigable

* I reckon the entrance to the Old Bedford river is about 20'

* and nobody has mentioned Grand Sluice in Boston, which is quite short (the photo below shows us not fitting in it).

 

The last two you have the option of waiting for the water to make a level ....

 

 

[blackrose]

16 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

This length issue has been argued.... at length. There's all sorts of ifs and buts, quite a few probables and possibles, and a smattering of definitely maybes.  End of the day though, there's loads of 57' boats which, rightly or wrongly, convention says is the "go anywhere" length. Why not go with the flow - even of there is a bit of margin, it's not a million miles out. There's lots to choose from in that bracket too.  Alternatively,  push the boundaries, explore the envelope and maybe even miss the odd spot off the list - in reality, few of us actually do go everywhere even if our boats can.

 

To me it actually seems a bit OCD to feel the need to go though every lock on the system. Imagine if we took this approach to other aspects of our lives.. Drive down every road in the country; walk every footpath; cycle every cycle lane. Each to their own I suppose. Some boaters want all those brass canal navigation signs on their doors to show everyone else where they've been.

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

To me it actually seems a bit OCD to feel the need to go though every lock on the system. Imagine if we took this approach to other aspects of our lives.. Drive down every road in the country; walk every footpath; cycle every cycle lane. 

Climb every mountain, ford every stream, follow every rainbow...

[Mike Todd]

Most of the above replies indicate one thing: that it is always (when sitting an exam) best first to read the question and answer it, not, as with politicians, the one that you wish they had asked.

 

Had the question been along the lines of "What length boat do you recommend?" then much of the comment might be helpful but only represents an answer if you are also given an indication of what cruising pattern (including going nowhere except to the nearest water point) is envisaged. Otherwise, you have to answer the one set here: what length can go anywhere,

 

Of course, many here know that it is almost a trick question as few who ask it are aware that there are the two or three oddities, such as Brandon which mean that if you answer strictly then it is probably not helpful to the questioner.

 

The benefit, in this case, of answering the question as posed, is that it is largely a technical one - save for the fact that few of us really know how long our boat is and lock measurements are almost equally imprecise. Of course, most responses made another assumption about the question, that of width, focusing only on length!

 

Opinions on what is comfortable, worth doing, would I do it and so on are answers to a different question! Sitting here in Cornwall, if someone asks me how to get to London, it is not really helpful just to say, "Oh, I wouldn't go there, m'dear, its a terrible place"

 

OK, so this is a forum and not an exam and almost any reply is valid, but it may just confuse the unwary . . . 

[Tim Lewis]

15 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

We we did get there (ie before the lock) last summer - a pleasant trip as is all of the Fen area from Northampton onwards, but quite variable and you do need to plan ahead for basic services.

 

I think that is the only lock on the system and (apart from Basingstoke and anything north of Selby - we did try, for both, honestly guv!) cannot recall not passing through anything at a nominal 60ft (two different boats) One or two of the northern ones, already mentioned, were a tad nail biting but still worth making the effort. But don't try it if not in full mental capacity (tinners beware) as you do need to pay close attention in the tighter fits.

What do you mean by Basingstoke? Full length boats can get right to the end of the canal.

 

[Mike Todd]

12 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

What do you mean by Basingstoke? Full length boats can get right to the end of the canal.

 

Sorry, my post was ambiguous - I was trying to say that we have covered the whole network with just those two exceptions so that I cannot speak from on-the-water experience, Elsewhere, I know where we have been and survived to tell the tale! Equally I do know about the length of locks on the Basingstoke as we hoped to go there a while back when we visited the Wey but alas it was not available (forgotten quite why in this instance but I know from others about the water supply issues - just looked back at the blog, it was lock stoppages but it was still early in the year) and we did not have enough time to hang around waiting for it to open.

[mrsmelly]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

To me it actually seems a bit OCD to feel the need to go though every lock on the system. Imagine if we took this approach to other aspects of our lives.. Drive down every road in the country; walk every footpath; cycle every cycle lane. Each to their own I suppose. Some boaters want all those brass canal navigation signs on their doors to show everyone else where they've been.

Those brass plaques always make me giggle. If we had one for every place we had visited that are now available then our boat would sink. there is a plaque nowadays for visiting tea rooms, each lock flight, canal etc etc. The weight would sink the bloomin boat.