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stop button or relay


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I have an isuzu engine control panel and am planning to replace the whole thing with a new custom panel. The current panel has an engine stop button and I was wondering if this could be replaced by a relay powered from the ignition line from the key switch, so that turning the key to off, will release the relay and stop the engine. Electrically I can see no problem but I am sure someone may be able to correct me.

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I don't understand this properly. Assuming a power to stop solenoid.

 

If you intend to use a relay to power the stop solenoid ten you will need to feed the coil from the ignition switch and use the de-energise to make contacts to feed the solenoid. The problem is the contacts can not be fed from the ignition switch because thee will be no supply with the ignition off so t will  need a permanent feed but the the stop solenoid will be energised all the time the engine is stationary. This will probably burn the solenoid out, let alone helping to flatten the battery.

 

You can get energise to run stop solenoids and one of those can be wired to the ignition switch but I have no idea if you can fit one to your engine.

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Currently if I turn the ignition key to off the engine keeps running and I have to press the stop button so this must switch the permanent 12 volts.  The button defiantly operates the stop solenoid which must be 'energise to stop' which is safer. So I thought if I have a relay it would do the same but I now see the snag. The push button energises the solenoid when I press it but I don't stand there all the time so when I take my finger off it isolates the stop relay. Hmm have to think again the current button is getting knackered and I can't find a suitable replacement.

 

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Our Vetus 2.06 had a 'timed' relay set up that stopped the engine when the key was turned to off.  On turning off it operated the stop-solenoid on the pump for 15 seconds and then switched off.  It worked fine for about 5 years and then it started self operating when under way.  Only short term cure was to wait and restart.  The 'relay' was in the engine mounted black box and obviously deteriorated through vibration.   A replacement cost about £100 yes £100.  This was fitted and lasted3 years before embarrasing and possibly dangerous engine cut outs started again.  So I then fitted a push button stop control and was and still is well.

 

Vetus did publish a wiring modification which removed the relay from the circuit and used the turn the key back position to operate the stop solenoid directly.  Their ignition switch (a generic I think) had the back position for use on two engine set ups which was a spareposition on a single engine panel.  Would a switch like that answer your issue?

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5 minutes ago, Grebe said:

Our Vetus 2.06 had a 'timed' relay set up that stopped the engine when the key was turned to off.  On turning off it operated the stop-solenoid on the pump for 15 seconds and then switched off.  It worked fine for about 5 years and then it started self operating when under way.  Only short term cure was to wait and restart.  The 'relay' was in the engine mounted black box and obviously deteriorated through vibration.   A replacement cost about £100 yes £100.  This was fitted and lasted3 years before embarrasing and possibly dangerous engine cut outs started again.  So I then fitted a push button stop control and was and still is well.

 

Vetus did publish a wiring modification which removed the relay from the circuit and used the turn the key back position to operate the stop solenoid directly.  Their ignition switch (a generic I think) had the back position for use on two engine set ups which was a spareposition on a single engine panel.  Would a switch like that answer your issue?

That sounds like a good solution.

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I have the standard solenoid stop button on my Isuzu panel, but one day I pressed it and it didn't work due to a loose connection. That gave me a bit of a surprise. I wouldn't fancy that in an emergency situation, so after finding the loose connection I fitted a pull stop cable too.

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36 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Can't understand this creating an alteration that's not needed. Those Isuzu stop buttons work very well.  Surely there's space for it. A  hole for it should be no trouble to drill.

 

Indeed, KISS, unless you want it to keep going wrong.

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just have a little know to pull labelled Engine Stop 

Exactly, and probably never goes wrong unless you are unlucky enough for the cable to break. Stop buttons ( I have one ) are called progress, so something may go wrong!! Remember when we were young and bought our first cars, they all had push buttons on the dash to start them? Well mine did and I bet your first car did then we had progress and the buttons all dissapeared cos they was " Old fashioned " and guess what the latest gimmick was just a few short years ago........remember...........yep all the marketing blurb was, Start, stop button ?

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Exactly, and probably never goes wrong unless you are unlucky enough for the cable to break. Stop buttons ( I have one ) are called progress, so something may go wrong!! Remember when we were young and bought our first cars, they all had push buttons on the dash to start them? Well mine did and I bet your first car did then we had progress and the buttons all dissapeared cos they was " Old fashioned " and guess what the latest gimmick was just a few short years ago........remember...........yep all the marketing blurb was, Start, stop button ?

One of our cars still has a push button start.

 

Our last diesel car had a stop button on the fuel pump. I found this out once when the stop solenoid packed up.

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11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Exactly, and probably never goes wrong unless you are unlucky enough for the cable to break. Stop buttons ( I have one ) are called progress, so something may go wrong!! Remember when we were young and bought our first cars, they all had push buttons on the dash to start them? Well mine did and I bet your first car did then we had progress and the buttons all dissapeared cos they was " Old fashioned " and guess what the latest gimmick was just a few short years ago........remember...........yep all the marketing blurb was, Start, stop button ?

Can I point out the absense of logic on your post? You say you like cables but they can break. You say you don’t really like buttons   because they can go wrong.

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Can I point out the absense of logic on your post? You say you like cables but they can break. You say you don’t really like buttons   because they can go wrong.

 

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Can I point out the absense of logic on your post? You say you like cables but they can break. You say you don’t really like buttons   because they can go wrong.

Yeah but ya can see the cable is broken but wiv leccy stuff ya cant see its broken so its one stage harder to diagnose.

2 minutes ago, carlt said:

My year old car has a push button start. 

Exactly. Thats what we had years ago, then we had " progress " and did away with buttons, then further " Progress " brought them back ? If it aint bust dont bloody fix it!!

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4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 

Exactly. Thats what we had years ago, then we had " progress " and did away with buttons, then further " Progress " brought them back ? If it aint bust dont bloody fix it!!

To be fair my key fob has more computing power than put Neil Armstrong on the moon. 

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1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

However a new button is much easier to procure than a pull stop cable.

Yer probably right. I do like mi button but I still do think on many occasions we progress in a backward motion, such as buttons. Just look at the growth today in theft of expensive cars with the keyless system. They are being nicked in ooge amounts and people are resorting to old clamp jobbies on the steering wheels. A good key system works more securely innitt.

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29 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Exactly, and probably never goes wrong unless you are unlucky enough for the cable to break. Stop buttons ( I have one ) are called progress, so something may go wrong!! Remember when we were young and bought our first cars, they all had push buttons on the dash to start them? Well mine did and I bet your first car did then we had progress and the buttons all dissapeared cos they was " Old fashioned " and guess what the latest gimmick was just a few short years ago........remember...........yep all the marketing blurb was, Start, stop button ?

Yes I was in the Brother in Laws jag, button to start and a knob for gear and no bloody key

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1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Yer probably right. I do like mi button but I still do think on many occasions we progress in a backward motion, such as buttons. Just look at the growth today in theft of expensive cars with the keyless system. They are being nicked in ooge amounts and people are resorting to old clamp jobbies on the steering wheels. A good key system works more securely innitt.

Well yes, on that point we agree. I do think it’s fairly piss poor that car manufacturers are still making keyless entry cars that can be stolen using the old signal relay trick. I think there is now 1 manufacturer (BMW maybe?) who have added a motion sensor to the keyfob so if it hasn’t moved for a few minutes (because it’s sitting on the hall table), it won’t transpond and thus you can’t steal the car with the relay trick. Probably costs less than £1 extra to give security on your £30k or whatever car. At some point, there is going to be a class action lawsuit.

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