Charging 'beep'

[Sea Dog]

3 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Not challenging just asking, if the beep sounds when water pump starts can that be accredited to the battery alternator?  To me, it seems a bit of load applied triggers the beep.

If applying domestic load caused the beep, the issue must be on the domestic side, so your starter battery charging system in the clear. How's your domestic alternator belt?

[PeterF]

There was a thread a couple of months ago where someone's solar charger and alternator settings meant that when close to fully charged, the warning beep just started to sound quietly. You mentioned solar on your boat, just a thought.

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, PeterF said:

There was a thread a couple of months ago where someone's solar charger and alternator settings meant that when close to fully charged, the warning beep just started to sound quietly. You mentioned solar on your boat, just a thought.

The difference here is that the beep seems to appear when a load is applied and that pull the solar voltage down a bit.

 

I am wondering if the domestic alternator is energised via the engine battery or visa versa. If so it may be something to do with one battery trying to charge via the warning lamp circuit. I don't know how the engine mariniser wires twin alternator energisation.

[Nightwatch]

7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

It must be somett and nowt old bean cos if not by now yer would have had somett flat or busted.

My thoughts entirely. But it's darned annoying.

4 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

If applying domestic load caused the beep, the issue must be on the domestic side, so your starter battery charging system in the clear. How's your domestic alternator belt?

Same belt drives both alternators.

54 minutes ago, PeterF said:

There was a thread a couple of months ago where someone's solar charger and alternator settings meant that when close to fully charged, the warning beep just started to sound quietly. You mentioned solar on your boat, just a thought.

A good thought.

[Sea Dog]

14 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

 

Same belt drives both alternators.

Oh heck. And the water pump too presumably? What's the engine again?

14 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

A good thought.

Do you have an isolator in the line from your panels to your solar controller?

[Nightwatch]

24 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Oh heck. And the water pump too presumably? What's the engine again?

Do you have an isolator in the line from your panels to your solar controller?

Barrus Shire engine. Not long after our engine was fitted, Barrus modifies the drive belt arrangement to a two belt system. I tackled them years ago and it would have cost nearly four hundred pounds for the conversion plus labour etc. The engine was installed in 2002, we bought in 2005. So long ago.

 

No, don't have an isolator, but it's now a possible addition. I'll look at that.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nightwatch

[Nightwatch]

Been either in drydock or alongside for a couple of weeks. Travelled a few miles and a few locks in the last few day. (Is that too many fees?) Anyway the beep is still here. Not always, but when the batteries, as before, have had their fill. 

Im thinking of installing a switch in the line, as suggested by Seadog, switch to off when engine flashed up. I gather this won't damage the solar arrangement in any way. It's possible that the so,at, being the latest addition to the system, might be something to do with the issue. Thank you Seadog for the comment. 

Now then, what switch? Am I correct in thinking the voltage from the solar panels is quite high until it hits the controller so the switch ought to be substantial and NOT  a 12v one. Suggestions please. 

 

As a footnote, all the batteries are working well and seem to be getting charged as per usual.

 

Something to think about on Easter Monday.

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Been either in drydock or alongside for a couple of weeks. Travelled a few miles and a few locks in the last few day. (Is that too many fees?) Anyway the beep is still here. Not always, but when the batteries, as before, have had their fill. 

Im thinking of installing a switch in the line, as suggested by Seadog, switch to off when engine flashed up. I gather this won't damage the solar arrangement in any way. It's possible that the so,at, being the latest addition to the system, might be something to do with the issue. Thank you Seadog for the comment. 

Now then, what switch? Am I correct in thinking the voltage from the solar panels is quite high until it hits the controller so the switch ought to be substantial and NOT  a 12v one. Suggestions please. 

 

As a footnote, all the batteries are working well and seem to be getting charged as per usual.

 

Something to think about on Easter Monday.

Depends upon the source of the panels and how they are wired (series or parallel).

 

Typical "12V" panel  will have an open circuit voltage of 21 to 27 volts. A "domestic" panel may go  close to 40 volts so check the panel specs.

 

If wired in parallel the voltage of the array will be the voltage of one panel, if wired in parallel the voltage will be the single panel voltage multiplied by the number of panels.

 

If wired in parallel the current (amps) will be the sum of the individual currents so could be fairly high where as in series it will be more or less the current from on panel.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[WotEver]

38 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If wired in parallel the voltage of the array will be the voltage of one panel, if wired in parallel series the voltage will be the single panel voltage multiplied by the number of panels.

Note the typo in Tony’s post. 

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Note the typo in Tony’s post. 

Thanks Tony

[Nightwatch]

I have two 100w panels wired through two 'y' connectors to end up with just two cables at the controller. Is that parallel or series. As I've mentioned before I'm a bit dim in electrics. I'm not in other subjects. Honest guv.

24 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Note the typo in Tony’s post. 

No wonder I didn't understand. ?

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nightwatch

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I have two 100w panels wired through two 'y' connectors to end up with just two cables at the controller. Is that parallel or series. As I've mentioned before I'm a bit dim in electrics. I'm not in other subjects. Honest guv.

No wonder I didn't understand. ?

That is in parallel so the voltage will be the one panel voltage so probably around 21 volts and less when connected to batteries.. The theoretical current, which is just as important for specifying the switch, will be in theory about 15 amps but I doubt it will rarely exceed 10 amps in the UK.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[Nightwatch]

So, if the panels were in series, I'd be getting twice the amount of volts, higher ampage.

 

Getting at present about 18v. Multi meter on the input terminals. Does sound about right?

 

Engine running, charge input at Victron monitor showing 12.2 amps.  zero amp hrs used,Domestic Battery voltage at 14.10. Starter Battery voltage at 14.61.

 

Normally beeps at 4 (ish) amp input. Waiting with baited breath. 

 

Bear with me. I'm learning. (Is that the correct Bear/bare). Some may say a bit late to learn at a ripe old age of 66 as of yesterday.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nightwatch

[Nightwatch]

A happy, so far, update.

 

Engine running a couple of hours. Done all the charging as per usual. 

 

Got down to low amps. It beeps. Stops, beeps stops as it has been doing for about four weeks. Disconnected the solar at the controller. Ain't no more beeps. Disconnected about twenty minutes. No beeps. 

 

So, it seems it's the solar input whilst engine running and batteries. Nearing float or fully charged. Switched on inverter and put a load, though small, the radio and the beep hasn't shown it's 'face'. 

 

So, I need an isolator in some shape or form. Looked on line, they can cost a lot of money and not a lot of money. Would a simple on/off switch on either + or - cable suffice or is that so wrong. Once again advice please. Not a lot of cable to play around with at that end. 

 

I'm a happy chappie at present.

 

Not being over confident. But thanks for all the advice and comments and suggestions and patience. Watch this space.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nightwatch

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

A happy, so far, update.

 

Engine running a couple of hours. Done all the charging as per usual. 

 

Got down to low amps. It beeps. Stops, beeps stops as it has been doing for about four weeks. Disconnected the solar at the controller. Ain't no more beeps. Disconnected about twenty minutes. No beeps. 

 

So, it seems it's the solar input whilst engine running and batteries. Nearing float or fully charged. Switched on inverter and put a load, though small, the radio and the beep hasn't shown it's 'face'. 

 

So, I need an isolator in some shape or form. Looked on line, they can cost a lot of money and not a lot of money. Would a simple on/off switch on either + or - cable suffice or is that so wrong. Once again advice please. Not a lot of cable to play around with at that end. 

 

I'm a happy chappie at present.

 

Not being over confident. But thanks for all the advice and comments and suggestions and patience. Watch this space.

 

 

You could make it automatic with a split charge relay, so it switches off when the engine starts and on again when you shut down, or even just a relay fed from the "Ignition" switch

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

So, if the panels were in series, I'd be getting twice the amount of volts, higher ampage.

 

Getting at present about 18v. Multi meter on the input terminals. Does sound about right?

 

Engine running, charge input at Victron monitor showing 12.2 amps.  zero amp hrs used,Domestic Battery voltage at 14.10. Starter Battery voltage at 14.61.

 

Normally beeps at 4 (ish) amp input. Waiting with baited breath. 

 

Bear with me. I'm learning. (Is that the correct Bear/bare). Some may say a bit late to learn at a ripe old age of 66 as of yesterday.

 

 

 

1. With panels in series you get twice the voltage of a single panel but the current will be the same as that supplied by one panel so not higher amperage.

 

2. 18 volts at input terminal sounds a bit high if batteries are connected but if its an MPPT controller I am not so sure. The 21 volts is an open circuit voltage so with a  load connected I would expect it to be much closer to battery voltage with panels in parallel. Have you connected the batteries to the controller before the panels, if so the controller may think its on a 24 volt system.  Best see if someone who knows more about solar and controllers shows up.

 

3. Unless your solar is connected to the engine battery the starter battery voltage looks too high to me. Assuming the batteries are fairly well charged the domestic voltage looks a bit low and  there should be no beeping.  Do you have a phase out in the domestic alternator?

 

4. 75 and still learning, its good we can still do so!!!

 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

18 volts at input terminal sounds a bit high if batteries are connected but if its an MPPT controller I am not so sure

That’s what I’d expect with MPPT. The controller allows the panel voltage to rise or fall to give the maximum power. Then the controller regulates its output to suit the selected charge curve. 

4 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Bear with me. I'm learning. (Is that the correct Bear/bare)

Yes, ‘bear’ is the correct bear, however baited breath is the wrong bated...

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

So, if the panels were in series, I'd be getting twice the amount of volts, higher ampage.

 

Getting at present about 18v. Multi meter on the input terminals. Does sound about right?

 

If two panels are in parallel, you'll get 18v ish at the input to the solar controller, but the Amps will be proportional to whatever current the batteries will accept depending on their state of charge and moderated by whatever other charging sources are running. In other words, the Amps will vary.  If your alternator is bashing out tens of Amps, the solar might be giving plenty of volts if it's sunny but probably won't be doing much at all in terms of current.  If the panels are in series, you'll see about 36v ish at the input to the controller and the Amps will then be half the above. When Tony Brooks says the same Amps at 1. above, he's talking about the output from the controller.

 

In both series and parallel, the output from the controller will be approximately the same in terms of volts (14v ish) and Amps.  This is because Power (Watts) = Volts x Amps, so for the same power being generated from the sun, doubling the input voltage will halve the input Amps. 

 

There's advantages and disadvantages to parallel and series, but for 2 panels I'd go with series because you'll get up to the threshold input voltage at which the controller "turns on" (maybe 16v?) to  start to charge your batteries earlier  (and vice versa for "turning off" as light levels drop) - in parallel that's at almost full output voltage, whereas in series it's less than half, so panel in series will be able to provide charge for longer.  The higher voltage is also better to reduce the effect of volts drop in your cabling from the panels to the controller.

 

So, yes, 18v at the input to the controller sounds about right for two panels in parallel, but series would give you 36v and I'd say that's usually better.

 

(That little lot crossed with Tony WotEver's more succinct post above!)

 

No need to spend a fortune on an isolating switch for the panels. I have a little circuit breaker in my positive feed to the controller input which was pretty cheap. It just makes things easy for testing, when fiddling with the panel connections or for turning off the input from the panels if you need to disconnect the controller output to the batteries. I'll see if I can look it up for you, but other ideas are available.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Sea Dog
Sp

[Nightwatch]

Thanks all. Been reading this after an early evening beverage. It makes sense now, who knows in 12 hours time. I can, of course re read it all. 

 

Engine back running now with panels all connected. Waiting for the beep. Bate or bait. Thanks. Boost my morale why don't you.?

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nightwatch

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

There's advantages and disadvantages to parallel and series, but for 2 panels I'd go with series because you'll get up to the threshold input voltage at which the controller "turns on" (maybe 16v?) to  start to charge your batteries earlier  (and vice versa for "turning off" as light levels drop) - in parallel that's at almost full output voltage, whereas in series it's less than half, so panel in series will be able to provide charge for longer.  The higher voltage is also better to reduce the effect of volts drop in your cabling from the panels to the controller.

The big disadvantage of series is if you have any shading on any part of either panel then that can limit the output from both panels. 

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, WotEver said:

The big disadvantage of series is if you have any shading on any part of either panel then that can limit the output from both panels. 

Agreed, and that's what I had in mind when I said having the higher voltage in series is "usually" better, although my observations so far seem to suggest that bypass diodes make this less of an issue in practice. With a breaker in the line to the controller, it's a quick task to swap the MC4 connectors to reconfigure if the panels to parallel if a more permanent mooring in a shady situation causes too much loss when in series connection.

[Nightwatch]

Bought a switch. Next installent of the saga. I intend to cut the positive cable and feed into this. Where and how please.

 

[WotEver]

Use the two holes that currently have that black wire and resistor in them (throw that away). Com & 1Way. 

 

Do it at night, or throw something over the panels when you do it. 

[Sea Dog]

Here's a breaker similar to the one I used ...

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F183360181776

 

[Tony Brooks]

13 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Bought a switch. Next installent of the saga. I intend to cut the positive cable and feed into this. Where and how please.

 

 

Just to point out that its an AC switch so unless you cover the panels or only switch it at night you are risking burning the contacts out and possibly them welding together. Better ditch it and get a switch designed for  DC.