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Treating rust -steel boat.


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Ive got loads and loads of red lead paint on my boat.

please feel free to come and collect it.

 

you will need a wire wheel in an angle grinder, and an industrial hoover ( other vacuums are available). Once you have accessed the paint you will need to take it away and find a new solvent carrier. I wont charge you for making good the 65ft  by 4 ft of clean steel you leave behind.

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6 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Just looks like one of the many zinc filled alkyd primers on the market.

Back in the 80's and 90's these were nowhere near the performance of red lead primer and I am sure they will not have improved. I dont know enough about how well they work so maybe some improvement over non zinc. With red lead, there was so much lead powder that there must have been good surface contact with some of it. Unless you are up at the 80-90% metal oxide, I dont see how these coatings can interact with the surface and passivate the metal. Maybe one of our metal experts can say. The coatings are made so the powder (filler, pigment, passivating metal etc) is finely milled down to micron size and then surrounded by the the carrier resin, so not much chance of the metal actually touching the surface.

I'll shoot the gun.

I reckon BondaPrimer is a bit different to most other primers, and I have used lots before settling on Bondaprimer. First, its a different and more volatile solvent so very quick drying, I know this because it smells different and brushes don't easily clean in white spirit. It brushes on very nicely, a favourite trick of mine was to paint it on to very hot steel straight after welding. Its a lot less viscous tan others so better at getting into pits etc. Makes yer 'ed go funny so take care in confined spaces

 

A downside of the solvent is if painting over a recently feathered edge of enamel it might lift that enamel edge.

 

On a warm day you can do two coats of Bonda and the first undercoat all within a couple of hours.

 

I believe it is more waterproof than most other primers.

 

..............Dave

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11 hours ago, dmr said:

 

A downside of the solvent is if painting over a recently feathered edge of enamel it might lift that enamel edge.

 

 

And if you use a paint kettle that has previously been used for white spirit based paint you will find the old dried out paint softens and you end of with bits of 'skin' in your bonda primer. DAMHIKT.

 

11 hours ago, dmr said:

On a warm day you can do two coats of Bonda and the first undercoat all within a couple of hours.

 

I believe it is more waterproof than most other primers.

 

 

The instructions on the can aren't very clear, but I thought you were supposed to overcoat with similar paint between 6 and 24 hours or after seven days, which rather precludes doing 2 coats on the same day (although it does touch dry very quickly). I also assume that if overcoating with conventional oil paint you need to allow the solvent to evaporate fully, which would mean several days before overcoating with conventional undercoat and top coat.

 

Just how waterproof is it? Can you use it as a top coat?

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17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

And if you use a paint kettle that has previously been used for white spirit based paint you will find the old dried out paint softens and you end of with bits of 'skin' in your bonda primer. DAMHIKT.

 

 

The instructions on the can aren't very clear, but I thought you were supposed to overcoat with similar paint between 6 and 24 hours or after seven days, which rather precludes doing 2 coats on the same day (although it does touch dry very quickly). I also assume that if overcoating with conventional oil paint you need to allow the solvent to evaporate fully, which would mean several days before overcoating with conventional undercoat and top coat.

 

Just how waterproof is it? Can you use it as a top coat?

As I said in an earlier post, I have used it as a final top coat on the decks (over Craftmaster raddle) to give a lower slip finish. I feel it needs a bit of enamel to build the depth and harden things. It sticks very well to steel but I don't think its particularly hard. Indoors it goes really nicely over wood, its thin so the grain shows through, sad its not available in other colours.

 

Two quick coats and then an undercoat has worked for me but I would only do that in fairly good sunny weather.

 

I reckon a quick paint job is better than no paint job at all (English weather limitations)  and I do like a functional rather than pristine looking boat.,

 

..............Dave

 

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14 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

The instructions on the can aren't very clear, but I thought you were supposed to overcoat with similar paint between 6 and 24 hours or after seven days, which rather precludes doing 2 coats on the same day (although it does touch dry very quickly). I also assume that if overcoating with conventional oil paint you need to allow the solvent to evaporate fully, which would mean several days before overcoating with conventional undercoat and top coat.

 

Just how waterproof is it? Can you use it as a top coat?

Putting 2 coats on in the same afternoon is risking trapping solvent in which will reduce lifetime but better to do this when the sun is shining than not coating at all or just leaving a primer coat on.

A primer can never have enough water resistance to work as a top coat. They are formulated with lots of pigment and the carrier resin is usually formulated to be less viscous so it flows out and wets well.

It does sound an interesting primer.

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  • 2 weeks later...
8 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I hear there's been some nice weather down Londonshire way, which would be handy for treating rust :)

Well, that's really nice of you Tumsh. If you really want to treat me, please send down a bottle of that Scotlandish whiskey. 

8 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

 

 It would be really nice to hear how things are going with @Dudette and her widows and rust treatment

Mmmm widows, Scotland... I'm sure there is a pun there somewhere. 

 

 

Yes, an update would be good.I started on our windows, but decided to wait for it  to warm up a bit more before removing them completely. Have drilled and tapped loads of holes though in anticipation. 

Edited by rusty69
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6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Well, that's really nice of you Tumsh. If you really want to treat me, please send down a bottle of that Scotlandish whiskey. 

Mmmm widows, Scotland... I'm sure there is a pun there somewhere. 

You are more than welcome my friend you only need to ask. I have notice that the shelves of both supermarket and bar are woefully lacking in the peaty stuff south of the border. 

 

10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Mmmm widows, Scotland... I'm sure there is a pun there somewhere. 

I'll take your word for that cos I'm not so sure. :huh:

 

My little pocket of the world seems to be a bit behind when I come to the spring front, in fact todays it practically Boltic. But we do have the advantage on the lighter evenings, there's almost and hours difference between it getting dark in London and it getting dark in Inverness now, which will obviously increase as we move to wards midsummer. Little bit of useless trivia for you. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Mmmm widows, Scotland... I'm sure there is a pun there somewhere. 

 

I always thought Scottish Widows was a double glazing company...

 

(Is that the one you were thinking of?)

 

:giggles:

 

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23 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Mmmm widows, Scotland... I'm sure there is a pun there somewhere. 

 

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I always thought Scottish Widows was a double glazing company...

 

(Is that the one you were thinking of?)

 

:giggles:

 

Oh for frock Shake - my little dyslexic self completely missed the whole joke :rolleyes:

 

Just to miss the joke again Scottish Widows was an insurance company wasn't it? Everest was the double glazing "Want the best fit Everest" but there is also Cairngorm Windows but I don't think they go south of the border. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I hear there's been some nice weather down Londonshire way, which would be handy for treating rust :)

 

It would be really nice to hear how things are going with @Dudette and her widows and rust treatment. 

 

 

Hi Tumshie,

 

Work on my boat is going very well , thank you for asking :) I'm almost done with surface preparation and once I get the rust treatment products  I'll be able to start properly :D 

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1 minute ago, Dudette said:

Hi Tumshie,

 

Work on my boat is going very well , thank you for asking :) I'm almost done with surface preparation and once I get the rust treatment products  I'll be able to start properly :D 

Good show. It'll be most satisfying for you to see it progressing :) I'm glad it's working for you. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Dudette said:

Hi Tumshie,

 

Work on my boat is going very well , thank you for asking :) I'm almost done with surface preparation and once I get the rust treatment products  I'll be able to start properly :D 

Great stuff :)

 

So did the advice that the metal was probably sound underneath the rust prove to be correct?

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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Great stuff :)

 

So did the advice that the metal was probably sound underneath the rust prove to be correct?

Hi there,

 

Yes, I'm relived that you were right :) its a very taught & dirty  job but defo worth it. I've ordered Bonda Primer & filler, but dunno which undercoat  would be best to use..?

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13 minutes ago, Dudette said:

Hi there,

 

Yes, I'm relived that you were right :) its a very taught & dirty  job but defo worth it. I've ordered Bonda Primer & filler, but dunno which undercoat  would be best to use..?

My suggestion would be...

 

1. Vactan

2. BondaPrimer

3. Filler, then sand it when dry. 

4. Primer again for where you’ve rubbed through it in 3. 

5.  Whatever undercoat the top coat manufacturer recommends. 

 

 

Edited by WotEver
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9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

My suggestion would be...

 

1. Vactan

2. BondaPrimer

3. Filler, then sand it when dry. 

4. Primer again for where you’ve rubbed through it in 3. 

5.  Whatever undercoat the top coat manufacturer recommends. 

 

 

On my agenda:

1.Fertan

2.Sugar soap

3.Bonda Primer

4.Bonda Filler

5.Bonda 15 year Paint on top 

 

They said on the web. that resin based zinc anti-rust coating primer treatment  leaves a metal surface ready to paint which got me thinking that I could skip the undercoat as I can't find a suitable Bonda undercoat product?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 01/04/2019 at 17:29, Dudette said:

On my agenda:

1.Fertan

2.Sugar soap

3.Bonda Primer

4.Bonda Filler

5.Bonda 15 year Paint on top 

 

They said on the web. that resin based zinc anti-rust coating primer treatment  leaves a metal surface ready to paint which got me thinking that I could skip the undercoat as I can't find a suitable Bonda undercoat product?

You intend to use filler and then topcoat?

I assume the sugar soap is to remove dirt and grease from original paintwork, and will be washed off.

Undercoat is there for a purpose, in my experience it is easy to apply, easy to sand, and essential to a good job. A call to the manufacturer after reading data sheets is a good idea. 

I dabble in painting from time to time, and I recommend being sure of the thinners ............. water, white spirit, xylene, all have several pseudo-names. Dr Bob is the resident expert., others  experts are available. The timing between coats, the temperature, humidity are all important variables. If outdoors, paint on a nice, T-shirt day. Use tack rags on final top coat preparation if you seek perfection.

Edited by LadyG
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49 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You intend to use filler and then topcoat?

I assume the sugar soap is to remove dirt and grease from original paintwork, and will be washed off.

Undercoat is there for a purpose, in my experience it is easy to apply, easy to sand, and essential to a good job. A call to the manufacturer after reading data sheets is a good idea. 

I dabble in painting from time to time, and I recommend being sure of the thinners ............. water, white spirit, xylene, all have several pseudo-names. Dr Bob is the resident expert., others  experts are available. The timing between coats, the temperature, humidity are all important variables. If outdoors, paint on a nice, T-shirt day. Use tack rags on final top coat preparation if you seek perfection.

My expertise is in high build steel coatings i.e. Direct to steel 2 pack epoxies etc. Topsides painting is a bit different as you build paint thickness via multiple coats. Paint thickness is wot you need to get best steel protection.

 

For painting steel, you need a primer to wet the surface and provide the base for the top coats. I assume the bonda primer  is doing that? An undercoat ( for steel) is normally needed to increase the paint thickness, i.e. Extra coats to build the thickness, and to even out any imperfections. We are talking topsides painting here.......ignore any blacking/bottom painting. It is easier to apply and easier to sand. You could just use top coat but it would be more difficult to apply and some paint companies reckon the finish on a system with undercoat looks better. The sanding bit is the important thing here.

We have just had our boat professionally painted and I think they put 5 coats on to build thickness. The first two of those was likely undercoat.

So, bottom line, you could just use a primer and top coats but it would be more difficult to sand and therefore get such a good finish. Prolly won't make much difference to performance but it won't look as good.

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If you watch John Barnard on Youtube, he goes for nine coats over bare metal in controlled conditions [three of each].

Outdoors, one has to adapt to circumstances, but at least one primer [high build for preference], two quick undercoats, two top coats for depth of colour, in my opinion, plenty of other opinions, more experienced opinions, are available.

Edited by LadyG
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