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Freeman Illegally moored om my mooring ?


W+T

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2 minutes ago, W+T said:

My god what is the problem with showing licences and names/numbers ?

 

I just dont get the problem doing so.

Its fairly easy to understand - if you want to break the rules, removing any identifying marks/licence/etc frustrates authorities efforts in enforcing against those rule-breaks.

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4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

It's being identifiable and having to buy a licence that upsets most of the stealth boats ...

 

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Its fairly easy to understand - if you want to break the rules, removing any identifying marks/licence/etc frustrates authorities efforts in enforcing against those rule-breaks.

 

 

That was my thoughts as all it can be. 

 

Bit daft really not to and no reason not to but to be awkward and avoiding something. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, rgreg said:

And then you get those that can't even be bothered to display a number either, so are completely unidentifiable to CRT. 

In London CRT maintain a "rogues gallery" of boats not displaying an index number ,name and licence. Besides the photo,the dimensions and any other easily identified features (colour,boat style and so on) are recorded so Mooring Rangers and Customer Licence Support (AKA Enforcement) can keep tabs on boats which might appear unidentifiable.

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

Its a shame Jenlyn is not contributing to this forum anymore otherwise he could explain why he removed all identifying marks from his boat.

It was displaying an in date licence ,visible from the canal when I drifted past recently.

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5 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Just after I bought my narrowboat,I did see a narrowbeam Freeman advertised for sale. (Sods law). It was called "Black Cat" and advertised by someone called Tugboat Tony.

Had a look at his website,and it is still listed for sale,and fitted with a Kubota diesel engine.

It's over two years since I first saw the ad,so it has probably been sold by now,and Tugboat Tony hasn't updated his website.

Anyway,even if it is still available,I couldn't cope with owning two boats. Maintaining and the running costs of one is quite enough!

It is indeed the same boat and it was with Tony that we went out on it. Lovely little boat. 

2 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

Those 6ft 10 narrow Freemans where really good boats back in the 60s . The fit out was really nice but like a lot of cruisers at that time they had petrol engines Ford I think. 

This one was a sweet little diesel engine. 

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Are you assuming the berth owner is accurately reporting the situation ? Could be the boat owner is not at fault.

Similarly, the berth owner should sort the issue out and should not be charging you if you cant use the berth.

Edited by yabasayo
  • Greenie 1
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It sounds like it’s the Mooring Owners responsibility to sort it out, not the OP.   If M&T has a contract with the mooring owner, and has paid, then they should have access to the mooring.    If the mooring owner is owned 3 years or rent for the owner of the boat, then they have a right of lien over the Freeman, irrespective of who now currently owns that boat.   

 

I do do hope it gets sorted out without an  major issue....but it’s really the responsibility of the mooring owner.   

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5 hours ago, Quaffer said:

In London CRT maintain a "rogues gallery" of boats not displaying an index number ,name and licence. Besides the photo,the dimensions and any other easily identified features (colour,boat style and so on) are recorded so Mooring Rangers and Customer Licence Support (AKA Enforcement) can keep tabs on boats which might appear unidentifiable.

It was displaying an in date licence ,visible from the canal when I drifted past recently.

 

 

Being "kept tabs on" is FAR cheaper than buying a licence and paying for a mooring.

 

I could save myself £10k a year. 

 

Very tempted....

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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It strikes me that on the face of what has been reported here that it is the mooring owner who is totally responsible and may well have committed a criminal offence by taking money for a mooring that is occupied. In any case it is the mooring owner who has the power to take steps to deal with the situation. Either by legal process to  remove the boat or by giving W+T his money back and possibly a bit of compensation for loss of interest etc. My feeling is the last thing W+T wants to do is put himself on the wrong side of any arguments by causing the boat to drift away by moving it. 

Edited by Tony Brooks
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8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Being "kept tabs on" is FAR cheaper than buying a licence and paying for a mooring.

 

I could save myself £10k a year. 

 

Very tempted....

 

 

Think it was meant that these unidentified botes were licenced but the owners are being awkward about displaying the number. 

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5 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Think it was meant that these unidentified botes were licenced but the owners are being awkward about displaying the number. 

Yes ,my point was that even if a boat in the London area appears to have no identification ,CRT do keep sighting data using the "rogues gallery " in their database.As I'm sure you are aware,ultimately this may well lead to enforcement action if licence conditions are not met,and boat location data is important in this context.

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2 hours ago, Quaffer said:

Yes ,my point was that even if a boat in the London area appears to have no identification ,CRT do keep sighting data using the "rogues gallery " in their database.As I'm sure you are aware,ultimately this may well lead to enforcement action if licence conditions are not met,and boat location data is important in this context.

CRT could just hire the local Banksy to graffiti an ID number onto the boat... 

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I’m guessing most replies on here are from people who have never tried to get an index plate....

 

we we bought our boat secondhand and it didn’t come with any index plates.

 

may never have had any for all I know obviously it was and is licensed. Several conversations with BW and then crt, eventually at The CRT stand at Crick a helpful person pointed me to their online shop were I could purchase a pair for the princely sum of 20 quid. 

 

Being a law abiding type I parted with my hard earned and now  display my index plates for the perusal of crts army of checkers. 

 

It could just be that some folks can’t be bothered or maybe 20 quid is no heating that week.

 

im sure that there are some who are deliberately ignoring the rules too.

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2 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I’m guessing most replies on here are from people who have never tried to get an index plate....

 

we we bought our boat secondhand and it didn’t come with any index plates.

 

may never have had any for all I know obviously it was and is licensed. Several conversations with BW and then crt, eventually at The CRT stand at Crick a helpful person pointed me to their online shop were I could purchase a pair for the princely sum of 20 quid. 

 

Being a law abiding type I parted with my hard earned and now  display my index plates for the perusal of crts army of checkers. 

 

It could just be that some folks can’t be bothered or maybe 20 quid is no heating that week.

 

im sure that there are some who are deliberately ignoring the rules too.

They come free when the boat is first registered, but there is nothing to stop you using vinyl signs, stick on numbers or painting them on

  • Greenie 1
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9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They come free when the boat is first registered, but there is nothing to stop you using vinyl signs, stick on numbers or painting them on

Or indeed marker pens and a bit of paper and stick them in a window.

 

There is a requirement to display the number, not the official plates or stickers.

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15 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

maybe 20 quid is no heating that week.

 

Its a legal requirement. Without getting into a massive debate on poverty etc, if you can't afford to own/run a boat and all the legal requirements that go along with it (there will be costs far greater than the £20 licence plates!) then its probably unwise to get into boating in general.

 

In a more general sense, if your lifestyle choices depend on bending/breaking the rules, I'd say those choices are wrong, not the system.

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3 minutes ago, Fly Navy said:

How rigourous are the CT in policing ......and prosecuting such misdeeds?

Do they have 'teeth'.

Technically it's a breach of the bylaws, and carries a criminal conviction and a £100 fine.

 

It's not something CRT report the way they do Section 8 court cases and seizures.

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7 hours ago, Quaffer said:

Yes ,my point was that even if a boat in the London area appears to have no identification ,CRT do keep sighting data using the "rogues gallery " in their database.As I'm sure you are aware,ultimately this may well lead to enforcement action if licence conditions are not met,and boat location data is important in this context.

 

Given the glacially slow rate at which CRT enfircement operates, i reckon i could save myself £30k by the time the CRT crane arrives to lift my boats out. 

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Missing number - they'd be thoroughly useless at taking any action on that. But it doesn't really matter anyway (to them). They have ways of identifying boats/boaters who think they're above the law and don't display - the nature of canals and boats means that it would be rare for 2 boats to exist which are so similar as to not be individually identifiable (might....just might occur eg with ex-hire boats or something...). They take detailed pics, there would be features or marks etc on a boat to identify its the same one. And the would apply any enforcement notices directly to the boat itself, so don't actually need the owner details etc. In fact, they're totally unbothered by the owner details. An owner would probably want to know they're having action taken against them, so its a bit of a daft thing concealing the boats identity anyway.

 

The mooring situation - they'd probably deem it a contractual issue and not get involved. Of course, if it were moved off the mooring, then it ended up overstaying on the public towpath, they might get involved then. But its a long process from first taking action to boat removal.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

They come free when the boat is first registered, but there is nothing to stop you using vinyl signs, stick on numbers or painting them on

Do they ?

I've been 'done'.

 

My boat came from 'non-C&RT' waters and was not registered.

I phoned up, requested registration, paid £20 by card, plates received 48 hours later (its not difficult)

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33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Do they ?

I've been 'done'.

 

My boat came from 'non-C&RT' waters and was not registered.

I phoned up, requested registration, paid £20 by card, plates received 48 hours later (its not difficult)

I feel sure mine did but that was 18 years ago, I wouldn't have paid £20 for them as I had the number painted on, maybe I can sell them on Ebay for a tenner

  • Greenie 1
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When the numbering system started BWB supplied the index plates free and we were told by no less than Tony Grantham that it was forbidden to paint the numbers on the cabin side so we fixed the plates to the front bulkhead of the engine room as didn’t want them fixed on the cabin sides.

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