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TV - what to run it on 12v batteries or 240v inverter?


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I bet this is answered somewhere already and I feel I should know the answer but I don't...……………..

 

I've got a 12/240v cello TV/DVD (good unit but poor sound)  and a very simple electrical set up with a 12v boat with a recently installed Victron Easyplus Inverter/charger/AC distribution unit, 2 leisure batteries and one starter - my instincts tell me I should run my TV on 12v but am I right or am I out of date - it would be much easier due to current wiring to use 240v via the inverter but easy aint always the right choice...………….

 

Non technical answers please as electrics really aren't my strong point.

 

Obviously when a hook up is available we use 240v

 

Thanks all...……………...

Edited by Halsey
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If your inverter is already 'on' to run something else use 230v.

If you need to switch the inverter on just to run the TV, use 12v

 

Inverters use power just to 'power themselves' and its pointless generating 12v, then getting 10% losses to get it up to 230v when you could just use 12v in the 1st place.

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If your inverter is already 'on' to run something else use 230v.

If you need to switch the inverter on just to run the TV, use 12v

 

Inverters use power just to 'power themselves' and its pointless generating 12v, then getting 10% losses to get it up to 230v when you could just use 12v in the 1st place.

Many thanks - that what I (logically and historically) thought was the case I just wanted to make sure.

 

Much appreciated 

 

JUST remembered/realized that my TV aerial amp uses 240v as on previous boat (which had an on board genny) it didn't matter so will I will in fact now use 240v for TV and 12v for DVD which is about a 50:50 split on our viewing habits anyway.

Edited by Halsey
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1 hour ago, Halsey said:

JUST remembered/realized that my TV aerial amp uses 240v

You could always buy a 12V one. Or even a USB powered one if that’s more convenient.

 

e.g.  SLx TV Signal Booster Aerial Amplifier With Integrated 4G Filter USB Powered https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G3QVQXS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_E9kKCbBC3DQWX

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20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

You could always buy a 12V one. Or even a USB powered one if that’s more convenient.

 

e.g.  SLx TV Signal Booster Aerial Amplifier With Integrated 4G Filter USB Powered https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G3QVQXS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_E9kKCbBC3DQWX

But where does the USB come from?

 

First point: 12v TV's are specialist items and much more expensive than mass products designed for mains AC.

 

Second point: whilst it is true that an inverter has losses incurred in converting the 12v battery power to mains AC, the internals of a TV are probably not 12v either - they have to convert as well. (So a more detailed calculation which is beyond me at this time of day is needed to make a proper energy comparison)

 

Third point: increasingly folk want to view something other than terrestrial TV and so also have additional boxes for satellite, Netflix, NOW or whatever and a well thought out plan has to take these into account - do any of them have a 12v form? Many do, however, have USB and so we have to consider how the USB is generated

 

Fourthly: unless you really want to binge on all day TV, it is not the most power hungry feature on board - try comparing it with a fridge! Marginal savings on an already quite modest consumption are not worth sacrificing convenience over energy - unless saving the planet is your over-riding ambition.

 

Fifthly: you may also want to take into consideration that energy losses vary in respect of who 'pays' for them. If you are living 'off grid' then the cost is probably mainly one of convenience - it is hard to see wasted solar power as in itself top of the eco crime league, but if it comes from a land line, then a different matter - at least whilst it comes predominantly from non-renewables. (There is perhaps 10-15% loss between power plant and consumer) If you routinely top up your batteries as a side effect of cruising then a different equation is needed - most of the power stored would otherwise be wasted but it is not entirely free as the alternator does add a load to the engine which in turn costs fuel - but it may be hard to quantify.

 

In my experience, nothing in the world of energy (especially in terms of eco friendly choices) is ever as simple as campaigners, from whatever base, like to make out. In some case, the over-looked side effects can wipe out the supposed gains.

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47 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But where does the USB come from?

??  

 

I wrote “if that’s more convenient”. IE if he has a USB outlet handy. If he doesn’t then it’s not ‘more convenient’ is it?

 

As for everything else you wrote, he already has a TV that runs on 12V, so if he runs it on mains he not only suffers the losses in the inverter, he also has the losses from the ‘brick’. In OP’s case it will be much more efficient running from 12V - quite possibly half the usage or even less than running from 230V. 

53 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

12v TV's are specialist items and much more expensive than mass products designed for mains AC.

That’s completely untrue. Very many TVs (certainly not all, but a lot) run off 12V supplied by the mains ‘brick’ 

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I suppose that the final arbiter will be is a ;

 

1) Proper '12v' TV, or#

2) A 230v tv powered by a 12v 'brick' (transformer)

 

If it is a 'proper' 12v TV then it will not require a stabilised 12v supply and it wont release its magic smoke if used when the alternator is putting out 14.7 volts.

If it is a 230v TV using a stabilised 12v via a 'brick' then it could go 'bang' when used with the alternator producing 14.7v

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I suppose that the final arbiter will be is a ;

 

1) Proper '12v' TV, or#

2) A 230v tv powered by a 12v 'brick' (transformer)

 

If it is a 'proper' 12v TV then it will not require a stabilised 12v supply and it wont release its magic smoke if used when the alternator is putting out 14.7 volts.

If it is a 230v TV using a stabilised 12v via a 'brick' then it could go 'bang' when used with the alternator producing 14.7v

It does have a 230-12 brick as I believe all Cellos do - but the 12v also has something "regulated" in line that looks like a brick that came with it - I'm not with it at present so I cant provide any more detail

Edited by Halsey
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2 minutes ago, Halsey said:

It does have a 230-12 brick as I believe all Cellos do - but the 12v also has "something" that looks like a brick in line that came with it - I'm not with it at present so I cant provide any more detail

It’ll either be a ferrite core to dampen transient peaks or it could be a voltage stabiliser. A piccy would establish which but it’s not important as Cellos are designed to run on a vehicle supply. 

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is a 230v TV using a stabilised 12v via a 'brick' then it could go 'bang' when used with the alternator producing 14.7v

Stabilisers are dirt cheap (under £3 from eBay/China). 

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If its the Traveller it only uses 15 Watts anyway (1'5 Amps) so what savings you could make on being 12 or 230 volt would be minute. I would leave it constantly on 12 volts even on shoreline as your inverter/charger will be keeping the batteries full. It does use a bit more when playing a DVD.

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

If its the Traveller it only uses 15 Watts anyway (1'5 Amps) so what savings you could make on being 12 or 230 volt would be minute. I would leave it constantly on 12 volts even on shoreline as your inverter/charger will be keeping the batteries full. It does use a bit more when playing a DVD.

This was my point. The overhead of an inverter and TV brick could easily be 2, 3 or 4A which way more than doubles what the TV will use on 12V. 

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I have 2 Samsung Smart TVs that came with an adapter that convert 240v AC to 14v DC. I have bought two adapters that convert the boat supply, (12v - 15v approx), to 15v and power them that way.

 

My inverter uses 4A when on, so it is a complete waste to power the TVs via the inverter.

 

A lot of LG boat sized TVs run off 19v as do a few Sonys. I saw a 40in Sony a few years ago which ran of 19v.

 

So you don't have to buy expensive specialist 12v tvs from Avtex and Cello.

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I think 12v is best but 240v works for us as we don't watch a lot of TV, 1 starter batt and 2 tired leisure batts. We cruise almost every day and find that the 1 hour or so when the TV is on is also useful for charging phones. kindles etc. The inverter is a cheap and nasty £30 thing from e bay. We charge other stuff, cordless drills etc when we are moving. I am sure there are better ways of doing it but it just sort of grew like that.

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When considering to use 12 v or 240v, first ensure that the 12v outlet, actually has 12v!

Mine because of voltage drop only can supply 11.5v, very poor choice of cable, and long run, mean I have a 240v ac Television, or an horrendous job to replace the 12v cables.

 

Bod

(Who didn't do the fitout.)

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5 hours ago, WotEver said:

??  

 

I wrote “if that’s more convenient”. IE if he has a USB outlet handy. If he doesn’t then it’s not ‘more convenient’ is it?

 

As for everything else you wrote, he already has a TV that runs on 12V, so if he runs it on mains he not only suffers the losses in the inverter, he also has the losses from the ‘brick’. In OP’s case it will be much more efficient running from 12V - quite possibly half the usage or even less than running from 230V. 

That’s completely untrue. Very many TVs (certainly not all, but a lot) run off 12V supplied by the mains ‘brick’ 

My point was that Cello are around 40 - 50% more expensive than the mass product equivalent - or were at least that 2 years ago when we kitted out our new boat.

be available if you poke inside.

 

Since a 12v unit will also being doing some voltage conversion it requires quite a bit of investigation to determine the relative merits of each approach -and then to apply a cost benefit trade off. as some one else pointed out, if you are already using main to power something else, especially if used with the tv, then the main losses are already incurred by having the inverter turned on. It would be necessary to know the differential losses.

 

I am not trying to suggest one or other solution but rather to indicate that a 'real' calculation is a lot more complex than is usually suggested as there are too many hidden factors.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

if you are already using main to power something else, especially if used with the tv, then the main losses are already incurred 

Indeed, as is often pointed out with regard to fridges. A 240V fridge is less than a third the cost of a 12V fridge etc...

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9 hours ago, Halsey said:

I bet this is answered somewhere already and I feel I should know the answer but I don't...……………..

 

I've got a 12/240v cello TV/DVD (good unit but poor sound)  and a very simple electrical set up with a 12v boat with a recently installed Victron Easyplus Inverter/charger/AC distribution unit, 2 leisure batteries and one starter - my instincts tell me I should run my TV on 12v but am I right or am I out of date - it would be much easier due to current wiring to use 240v via the inverter but easy aint always the right choice...………….

 

Non technical answers please as electrics really aren't my strong point.

 

Obviously when a hook up is available we use 240v

 

Thanks all...……………...

I’ve got a Cello telly. I use the 12v lead it comes with because I ain’t got an inverter. 

I would be interested to know what aerial you use for the tv. So far I’ve only used it for DVD. 

And yes the sound is rubbish but the picture is very good. I ‘ve thought about attaching a separate speaker. 

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4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Cheers. I’ll have a nose. 

The aerials are good for reception in weaker signal areas, but will need to be removed for cruising. A mini log periodic is available at screwfix, but only really works in stronger signal areas.

Edited by rusty69
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6 hours ago, Bod said:

When considering to use 12 v or 240v, first ensure that the 12v outlet, actually has 12v!

Mine because of voltage drop only can supply 11.5v, very poor choice of cable, and long run, mean I have a 240v ac Television, or an horrendous job to replace the 12v cables.

 

Bod

(Who didn't do the fitout.)

Or you put a regulator in the 12v supply to give you a stable 12v even if it drops a bit.  I suppose the regulator must use a small amount of current though.

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Did try that, worked for a while, but in the end dragged the voltage down too low to work, sub 10v if I remember, the difference was just to great to regulate.

Lord knows what horrors there are in that line, but it works the radio/CD, so for now it's left alone.

 

Bod

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4 hours ago, Goliath said:

I’ve got a Cello telly. I use the 12v lead it comes with because I ain’t got an inverter. 

I would be interested to know what aerial you use for the tv. So far I’ve only used it for DVD. 

And yes the sound is rubbish but the picture is very good. I ‘ve thought about attaching a separate speaker. 

A 4G digidome from amazon or ebay app £40 VERY good - the best we have used and we have used most things available over the years

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