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Hot Water


Jak

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Hi all. Had the boat 2 years now and really pleased with the solar, new batteries, updated 240v electrics and many other upgrades to what was a really basic 80s 12v only setup.  But we can’t live with is the 1hr at least running the BMC diesel for a tank of hot water to shower and wash up.  So what I think I want is a basic gas water heater. I’ve tried to research but am frankly confused about what will pass BSS (flues etc?). It only needs to heat the water in the calorifier, or perhaps provide instant hot for showers and hw taps?  I’ve no desire for rads at all. 

 

In in the theme of the boat I just want something inexpensive and practical to give us convenient hot water. Any advice very welcome. 

 

Thanks

Jak. 

 

 

 

Edited by Jak
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Probably not adding anything to what you already know/dont know, but I think you need a room sealed gas water heater ,with a flue  longer than a certain length/height, which might be too high for some of the bridges you want to travel through.

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Thx Richard. I’m really after practical examples from someone who’s done this.  I’ve seen a lot of older boats with what must be water heater flues on the roof, but don’t know anyone to speak to...

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8 hours ago, Jak said:

Thx Richard. I’m really after practical examples from someone who’s done this.  I’ve seen a lot of older boats with what must be water heater flues on the roof, but don’t know anyone to speak to...

They are probably for the obsolete and very inefficient but simple Ellis gas central heating boiler if they are not for a variety of instant gas water heaters. If it helps I have an upright Alde doing exactkly what you describe into a twin coil calorifier but that is now obsolete. The new ones that are far more efficient say they can not be used with copper plumbing that includes the calorifier so not easy to retrofit unless your calorifier is stainless steel. Countless posts on here discussing instant gas water heaters - if you can find them!

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If your BMC takes an hour to produce enough hot water for a shower, either you are wasting water or your thermostat in the engine is duff or missing. Mine takes about 20 minutes.

Engine needs to be a bit over tickover, its never good to run too slow for too long.

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10 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Probably not adding anything to what you already know/dont know, but I think you need a room sealed gas water heater ,with a flue  longer than a certain length/height, which might be too high for some of the bridges you want to travel through.

 

I've got a non room sealed Morco which passed the BSS last summer. The standard flue for these heaters is only about a foot high. Mine could be easily removed if required.

11 hours ago, Jak said:

Hi all. Had the boat 2 years now and really pleased with the solar, new batteries, updated 240v electrics and many other upgrades to what was a really basic 80s 12v only setup.  But we can’t live with is the 1hr at least running the BMC diesel for a tank of hot water to shower and wash up.  So what I think I want is a basic gas water heater. I’ve tried to research but am frankly confused about what will pass BSS (flues etc?). It only needs to heat the water in the calorifier, or perhaps provide instant hot for showers and hw taps?  I’ve no desire for rads at all. 

 

In in the theme of the boat I just want something inexpensive and practical to give us convenient hot water. Any advice very welcome. 

 

Thanks

Jak. 

 

 

 

I think it would be an odd arrangement to have a instant gas water heater that heated a calorifier. I'm not sure what the point would be but I'm open to new ideas. 

 

If you want two sources of hot water feeding one hot water system then the easiest way is a manually operated L-port valve to switch between the two.

 

https://www.asap-supplies.com/fittings-valves-strainers/valves-spares/l-port-ball-valves

Edited by blackrose
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Brilliant Thanks!  So it looks like the replacement is the Morco Primo 6. And I will probably take your advice on the L-port valve as it seems a shame not to use the free hot water from cruising.  Sounds like a plan. 

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I think the rules are that if you're competent you can fit lpg appliances yourself, but if your boat is your home then you can't even if you're competent. Someone will be along to correct me if I've got that wrong. 

 

But whatever you decide to do the important part is competence. That includes understanding which materials to use for your installation (I'm really thinking about soft copper pipe, copper olives not brass & without sealant is preferable). Also understanding gas pipe sizing according to length of pipework and total kW output of gas appliances; securing pipework safely; fluing a gas heater, method of testing the system afterwards, etc. It's all in the BSS essential guide (apart from the pipe sizing tables).

 

If you're not competent or are not able to read up and become competent then don't attempt to do it yourself. I'd never done it before but didn't find it that difficult and my gas system has been tested by 4 different inspectors all of whom have said it's all been done properly. 

 

My understanding is that if you're not competent to do it yourself then the problem is that any other professional qualified person isn't allowed to fit a non-room sealed gas water heater on your boat. Again I could be wrong on that so please check with others.

Edited by blackrose
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Yes the Morco D61 is instantaenous heater is the usual solution to this.  For a private boat they are completely acceptable in BSS terms.  I have fitted two of my own now, and for each the examiners have commented on how well they were working, and had no issues with them whatsoever.

As has been said, fine if you are competent to install yourself, but there may be issues with a professional not being prepared to fit an open flued device, even if the BSS s happy with them.

 

The other issue is that the Morco seems to have gone out of production, though I have seen several cases recently of people selling ones that are "new and unused" that they bought but never ended up fitting.

 

I wouldn't chose to use a gas boiler to heat a calorifier.  Heating with LPG is an expensive option.  At least with an instantaneous heater all the heated water is used as it is made, and not much gas is wasted.  Keeping a calorifier hot inevitably means a slow loss of heat from it, and hence a boiler needing to kick in periodically  to keep it hot, even if no hot water is being drawn off.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

If your BMC takes an hour to produce enough hot water for a shower, either you are wasting water or your thermostat in the engine is duff or missing. Mine takes about 20 minutes.

Engine needs to be a bit over tickover, its never good to run too slow for too long.

Thanks, I’ll check that out. There seem to be 2 different thermostats. 74C or 82C. Do you know which is normally fitted?

 

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We have an ancient old Paloma water heater, with nowt but a mushroom vent on the roof. It has passed the BSS for the last 20 years and works fine. Dunno if you are still allowed to install them. I added a calorifier and valve later on to be able to switch between the two sources as suggested.

 

It works well.

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5 hours ago, Jak said:

Thanks, I’ll check that out. There seem to be 2 different thermostats. 74C or 82C. Do you know which is normally fitted?

 

82C is the usual one with a normal cooling system.(Skin tank,keel cooled or indirect raw water cooling.)

The 74C thermostat is (I am told by ASAP Supplies) used in hot climates.

I use the 74C thermostat in my boat because it is direct raw water cooled,and because my system is unpressurised,needs to run a little cooler.

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Much appreciated, thank you.  So new thermostat first, that’s an easy job I know I can do. Not at all sure about fitting the gas heater though. Instant hot water would be great, but I’ve no experience at all with gas and Mrs Jak is understandably worried about safety.  Very sure it’s what we need after all the replies, but less sure I could fit it properly to 1) stay alive and 2) pass the next BSS!

 

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12 hours ago, blackrose said:

I think the rules are that if you're competent you can fit lpg appliances yourself, but if your boat is your home then you can't even if you're competent. Someone will be along to correct me if I've got that wrong. 

 

 

As you mention it, the highlighted bit is not right!

 

'The Rules' which apply to a boat which is a residence, say you can fit your own LPG gas systems provided you are competent. You can also fit LPG systems for other people provided you are competent too. What you CANNOT do is carry out this work in return for payment or other reward. 

 

The fact that most professionals will not fit one simply demonstrates their lack of understanding of what "The Rules" actually say. The only rule that gets breached by 'retro-fitting' an open flue Morco or any other type of open flue water heater is the RCD, and who cares about that? No-one, and certainly not the BSS once the boat is launched and in day-to-day use. 

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