Building bow well deck benches

[Split Pin]

My gas clocker is a five sided box with a wooden lid and is completely removable. it is bolted into the surounding steel work, 

some of the bolts being at about 1/3rd up from the bottom.

Its been like that since the boat was built in the  mid 1980's and has never been an issue

 

Steve

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I can only assume he read the bit about no drilled holes and then stopped reading!

 

Personally I'd drill and bolt it, make it gas tight so the locker can only leak out of the drainholes and if necessary pick a different BSS inspector.

Yes, that sounds reasonable to me. If it's gas tight then it's gas tight surely. The only thing I can think of is that an inspector could claim that he's got no way of checking if it's gas tight.

[Mad Harold]

The gas bottles have to be secured in the lockers. Mine have leather belts which are fastened inside the gas lockers onto the bolts securing the angle that the bench sits on.

It is difficult to see how you could easily secure the gas bottles without welding some sort of mounting in the locker.

Is the lid of the gas locker airtight?  Probably not,so as gas is heavier than air,any leak will sink to the bottom of the locker and vent through the scuppers or vent pipe. 

I think it would be a very pedantic inspector to fail on having bolts through your gas locker.

[blackrose]

2 minutes ago, Split Pin said:

My gas clocker is a five sided box with a wooden lid and is completely removable. it is bolted into the surounding steel work, 

some of the bolts being at about 1/3rd up from the bottom.

Its been like that since the boat was built in the  mid 1980's and has never been an issue

 

Steve

Perhaps my inspector is being too strict, but he could say that because the bolts are supporting a bench which has people stepping on it, then any sealed hole might become unsealed over time? 

[blackrose]

8 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

The gas bottles have to be secured in the lockers. Mine have leather belts which are fastened inside the gas lockers onto the bolts securing the angle that the bench sits on.

It is difficult to see how you could easily secure the gas bottles without welding some sort of mounting in the locker.

Is the lid of the gas locker airtight?  Probably not,so as gas is heavier than air,any leak will sink to the bottom of the locker and vent through the scuppers or vent pipe. 

I think it would be a very pedantic inspector to fail on having bolts through your gas locker.

I drilled a hole through the deck/top of the gas locker, stuck a dome bolt through from the top and put a chain over the bolt underneath and secured it with a nut. The chain is used to secure the bottles. The lid or any other holes above the bottles don't need to be gas tight.

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[Split Pin]

39 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Perhaps my inspector is being too strict, but he could say that because the bolts are supporting a bench which has people stepping on it, then any sealed hole might become unsealed over time? 

Well mine not only has to help support the weight of two 13kg  bottles plus part of the weight of the locker itself it also doubles as a step to get up on to the roof so has to support another 95kg when I step on it. As it is adjacent to the helm position it gets used may times a day to sit up onto the cabin, never had a problem the bolts coming loose

Edited March 16, 2019 by Split Pin

[mrsmelly]

Could you not just put some upright bits of the alloy down to the well deck? So you could still run the length were you wanted but the uprights would take the weight? You could even use some form of sticks like S--t stuff as with the uprights taking the weight I doubt anything would move?

[Johny London]

I want to do exactly the same thing as the op. And had the idea mrsmelly mentions - just uprights to take the horizontal piece that the deck boards or whatever would sit on. They'd stay in place ok with a bit of fixing through to the horizontal and deck boards, or as above with a bit of sticky.

Mind you - I've never been 100% happy with that idea and so when I saw this thread I was hoping for a better solution! In my case I want to reserve the option to convert the bow locker into an extra water tank, so didn't want bolts making a good area for rust to start, but the principle is the same.

If you use wood for the vertical supports, it'll be easier to build than with box section or similar, but may trap water and allow rust to build, so probably box/square tubing?

[blackrose]

14 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Could you not just put some upright bits of the alloy down to the well deck? So you could still run the length were you wanted but the uprights would take the weight? You could even use some form of sticks like S--t stuff as with the uprights taking the weight I doubt anything would move?

Yes I had thought of that idea. Perhaps some box section uprights stuck to the gas locker bulkhead. The trouble is then there's no way of painting underneath. I suppose I could just prize them off or whack them off with a hammer when it comes around to painting. I think that's probably what I'll do.

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[BEngo]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

The trouble is then there's no way of painting underneath.

If you ensure that the adhesive/sealant forms a continuous film between the upright and the steel it is stuck to there will not be any need to paint underneath it.  As a belt for the adhesive braces, you could also run a bead of sealant around the uprights.  If you use the typical round-cornered box section there is a ready made groove to hold the sealant.

I would still go with a phone call to the BSS office about bolts in holes, and ask them to follow up with an e-mail to show any future examiner.

N

[blackrose]

Thanks for your input everyone. 

[Detling]

You could put a one inch or more thick piece of hardwood the width of your step sitting on the floor/deck at the front held with sticaflex to the bulkhead, then sit the board for the step on top of that. I have that arrangement at front and back with a bit of aluminium chequer plate over. The chequer plate has a stiffening angle bolted to the bottom, this sits in grooves in the wood stopping sideways movement.

 

[dor]

 Some years ago now Rob from BSS office sent out a note about bolts penetrating gas lockers, basically saying it was ok as long as they were clearly completely filling the hole.  I printed it off and keep it on the boat in case a future BSS examiner took exception to my bolts through the bottom of the gas locker holding a bar protecting the regulator.  Not sure if I can find the link now, but maybe Rob could reissue it.

 

ETA:  Just found my file:

It's in an old thread on here with a response from Rob.  I printed it off at the time, suggest others might like to and keep with their certificate in case they come across a pedantic examiner (I do wonder how many do this in the hope of getting a re-examination fee...).

 

Rob@BSSOffice

 

Location:Milton Keynes

Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:22 PM

Mike the Boilerman, on 06 Nov 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:   I would argue that a hole filled by a bolt and suitably sealed against the passage of gas is no longer a hole.

 

Reading 7.2.1 in context in my opinion means there must be no open holes, although I agree this is not what it actually says

 

Y'know I really fear to enter this thread, too much heat taking away all the light, but I feel that Alan, Mike, Brendan, Bones, Julyian and all the excellent contributors deserve the answer about bolted items.

So I asked the tech guys in the office and this is the answer...

Bolting a mounting plate or restraint anchors into the locker is ok provided the holes are fully 'filled-in' with no visible gaps/holes. These should also be quasi-permanent arrangements, not say access or inspection plates designed to be regularly bolted and unbolted.

So as Brendan said, there is as Mike also describes, the option for the examiner to agree that there are no open holes on an arrangement that is as permanent as ever a bolted thing can be. the sensible and reasonable ground as somebody said to me.

This is what the committees agreed when they reconsidered gas locker arrangements last year.

I hope this helps let the dust settle on this point which seems to have become a bit of a side issue.

Cheers

Rob

Edited March 16, 2019 by dor

[blackrose]

Thanks again, that's useful.

[WotEver]

50 minutes ago, dor said:

It's in an old thread on here with a response from Rob.

Which is here: