Building bow well deck benches

[blackrose]

I want to build benches on each side of the bow well deck of my widebeam, to be used as steps/benches. The problem is that I can't drill into the gas locker bulkhead. If I could I'd simply bolt a foot length of 2" aluminium angle horizontally onto the bulkhead to act as a support for a cross member to the cabin bulkhead (which I can drill through to add horizontal supports) and from there it would be easy to lay decking or other suitable material for the benches.

 

So I was thinking of ways to create a support at the gas locker end without drilling into the gas locker and came up with the idea of laying a 2600mm x 250mm x 150mm solid oak beam right across the well deck and from there I could add the aluminium supports. There would actually be two aluminium angle supports running fore-aft for the front and back of each bench - not just one as shown in my sketch. 

 

http://www.railwaysleeper.co.uk/new-untreated-oak-sleeper-railway-sleeper-p-9.html

 

I'd have to shape the ends of the oak beam to fit the contour of the internal sides of the hull. The sloping sides of the hull would prevent the oak beam from moving down, and once fitted the idea is that the aluminium angle would prevent the oak beam moving back, so it would be held in position. Is this a stupid idea? Are there better ways to do it?

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[David Mack]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I want to build benches on each side of the bow well deck of my widebeam, to be used as steps/benches. The problem is that I can't drill into the gas locker bulkhead.

 

Why not?

[blackrose]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Why not?

BSS

 

Edit: I checked this with a BSS inspector last summer - he assured me that drilling a hole into that bulkead below the height of the gas bottle would result in a fail, even if it was sealed with a bolt and sealant.

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[Movin' on]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

BSS

I was about to ask why not - I think if the bolt holes are sealed you are OK but others will know better I'm sure past boats of mine have holes into the locker incl the one I've just sold after all gas drops to the bottom of the locker

 

MY other thought was why aluminum- is this so you are bolting not welding?? Either way IMHO it should be painted 

 

Also from past experience the best board for the overall construction is the one hire boats favour for cruiser stern deck-boards again others will know the name 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Halsey

[blackrose]

4 minutes ago, Halsey said:

I was about to ask why not - I think if the bolt holes are sealed you are OK but others will know better I'm sure past boats of mine have holes into the locker incl the one I've just sold after all gas drops to the bottom of the locker

 

MY other thought was why aluminum- is this so you are bolting not welding?? Either way IMHO it should be painted 

I just prefer building things from aluminium rather than steel - just less metal to corrode and paint (and I don't weld). I built an aluminium generator housing 6 years ago - it's never been painted. I will be painting it this summer as I'm doing the stern deck.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[Movin' on]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I just prefer building things from aluminium rather than steel - just less metal to corrode and paint. I built an aluminium generator housing 6 years ago - it's never been painted. I will be painting it this summer as I'm doing the stern deck.

 

 

Wow I take that back - that's probably the best I've seen   - you obviously have access to good ally sections

Edited March 16, 2019 by Halsey

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Wow I take that back - that's probably the best I've seen   - you obviously have access to good ally sections

Thanks. I just buy it from ebay.

 

But anyway, if I can drill into the gas locker than that's what I'll do. I'm just getting conflicting advice. Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

BSS

 

Edit: I checked this with a BSS inspector last summer - he assured me that drilling a hole into that bulkead below the height of the gas bottle would result in a fail, even if it was sealed with a bolt and sealant.

That's a particularly onerous reading of the BSS requirements. I would check with the BSS office. Bolt with head inside the gas locker, and plain washer under the head should be more than gas tight enough (with or without sealant). It's certainly more gas tight than some of the arrangements I have seen for the drain connection between a non-integral gas locker and the skin fitting.

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

That's a particularly onerous reading of the BSS requirements. I would check with the BSS office. Bolt with head inside the gas locker, and plain washer under the head should be more than gas tight enough (with or without sealant). It's certainly more gas tight than some of the arrangements I have seen for the drain connection between a non-integral gas locker and the skin fitting.

Ok thanks, I will ask Rob what he thinks.

[roland elsdon]

I dont have a definitive answer, however when I relocated my gas pipe, I put a nut bolt 2 washers over the old hole, plus sealant of course. Coc never questioned it as it was gas tight.

[blackrose]

The trouble is that it seems to be all down to the interpretation of the particular BSS inspector on the day. What are you supposed to do if you think the inspector is wrong? Is there actually any right to challenge a decision based on previous advice from the BSS office?

[TheBiscuits]

Up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or other high‐pressure components where these are higher, the bottom,sides, and seams of every cylinder locker must be free of any:

• holes, e.g. caused by drilling, rust or cutting; or ,

• cracks, splits or de‐laminations; or,

• missing or damaged welds at seams; or,

• other signs of damage or deterioration…

 

…. that can be determined by visual examination to penetrate the locker to the interior of the vessel.

 

So if you drill a hole and seal it gas tight with a bolt and sealant/paint, it is not a hole anymore.

[system 4-50]

Can't you glue a support bracket? 

I'd expect some BSS inspectors to fail a sealed bolt and most to pass it. But I would still not do it. I'd get it welded.

Edited March 16, 2019 by system 4-50

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or other high‐pressure components where these are higher, the bottom,sides, and seams of every cylinder locker must be free of any:

• holes, e.g. caused by drilling, rust or cutting; or ,

• cracks, splits or de‐laminations; or,

• missing or damaged welds at seams; or,

• other signs of damage or deterioration…

 

…. that can be determined by visual examination to penetrate the locker to the interior of the vessel.

 

So if you drill a hole and seal it gas tight with a bolt and sealant/paint, it is not a hole anymore.

 

But isn't that last bit just your own interpretation?

 

 

Just now, system 4-50 said:

Can't you glue a support bracket? 

 

 

I doubt it - not one that would safely take the full weight of someone standing on the bench surely?

[Mad Harold]

The benches on my boat are fastened on angle bolted to the gas lockers.

Had my BSC inspection a few weeks ago,and passed with no advisories.

I think inspectors vary in their interpretation of the rules.

As an example,on the previous BSC,the inspector gave an advisory for inadequate ventilation,but my chap looked at it and shrugged and said that he thought the the last inspector was being a bit pedantic.

[system 4-50]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

But isn't that last bit just your own interpretation?

 

 

 

I doubt it - not one that would safely take the full weight of someone standing on the bench surely?

If the bracket has a good vertical depth say 12"?

[GUMPY]

best fixing would be to drill and tap the gas locker, then there is no hole round the bolt and for further security washers and nuts on the inside if you put washers on all bar one of the bolts then the inspector can see there is no gap round the bolts.

[Ex Brummie]

Doesn't the last sentence give us a clue? Your 'hole' would be into an open area, which vents through the scuppers. It certainly does not allow for penetration to the interior of the vessel.

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, Mad Harold said:

The benches on my boat are fastened on angle bolted to the gas lockers.

Had my BSC inspection a few weeks ago,and passed with no advisories.

I think inspectors vary in their interpretation of the rules.

As an example,on the previous BSC,the inspector gave an advisory for inadequate ventilation,but my chap looked at it and shrugged and said that he thought the the last inspector was being a bit pedantic.

 

Thanks. That sounds promising.

 

The difference of course is that you're not going to fail on something like ventilation advisories, whereas you would fail on a flouting of gas locker regs.  

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

But isn't that last bit just your own interpretation?

And that of every BSS inspector ever to look at my boat which has bolts through the gas locker into the welldeck.

[blackrose]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

best fixing would be to drill and tap the gas locker, then there is no hole round the bolt and for further security washers and nuts on the inside if you put washers on all bar one of the bolts then the inspector can see there is no gap round the bolts.

Yes, that's a reasonable idea.

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

And that of every BSS inspector ever to look at my boat which has bolts through the gas locker into the welldeck.

Ok, well some of you are passing the BSS test with holes/bolts in your gas lockers. I wonder why my inspector was so adamant it would be a fail?

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose

[Movin' on]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Yes, that's a reasonable idea.

I like that one too - the issue seems to be is the hole below the bottle - on my last boat the bolt/hole was above the bottle as indeed was the gas bulkhead fitting and conforms to BSS

 

Are you able to ask your preferred examiner??

 

For me this is too important to rely on consensus

[Boater Sam]

But hasn't every gas locker a hole filled with a bulkhead gas fitting?

 

When is a hole not a hole? When you can't see through it!

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Ok, well some of you are passing the BSS test with holes/bolts in your gas lockers. I wonder why my inspector was so adamant it would be a fail?

I can only assume he read the bit about no drilled holes and then stopped reading!

 

Personally I'd drill and bolt it, make it gas tight so the locker can only leak out of the drainholes and if necessary pick a different BSS inspector.

[blackrose]

7 minutes ago, Halsey said:

 

Are you able to ask your preferred examiner??

 

For me this is too important to rely on consensus

 

I agree. I'm not going to drill any holes until I'm 100% sure. The last examiner I had was very good, very thorough and passed my boat with no advisories. He explained everything as he went around the boat and when I asked him about this he told me it would be a fail. I could change examiners but that would be a shame.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

But hasn't every gas locker a hole filled with a bulkhead gas fitting?

 

Yes, but the hole for the bulkhead gas fitting should be above the height of the gas bottle high pressure valve.

7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

 

When is a hole not a hole? When you can't see through it!

 

Unfortunately I don't think that's the generally accepted definition when it comes to gas tightness and the BSS!

Edited March 16, 2019 by blackrose