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Water Tanks and Bed around it


Peter009

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I find I am very 'sensitive' to listing - particularly when in bed.

Dropping one side by 1.5", and obviously increasing the other side by 1.5" would be totally uncomfortable and unacceptable for me (I have a 14 foot WB)

Ok. It doesn't bother me that much.

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If the boat was built by one of the well known names, they would also do full fit-outs. I'm sure they'll sell you their own bed components to screw and glue together. Or just get a local chippy, it's quite a basic job in the bigger picture of things. As already mentioned, make sure the tank is insulated otherwise you'll have a mattress going mouldy underneath very quickly.

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2 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

If the boat was built by one of the well known names, they would also do full fit-outs. I'm sure they'll sell you their own bed components to screw and glue together. Or just get a local chippy, it's quite a basic job in the bigger picture of things. As already mentioned, make sure the tank is insulated otherwise you'll have a mattress going mouldy underneath very quickly.

I agree it should be a basic job maybe I am over complicating it unnecessarily  am I correct does the tank need to sit off the floor even with insulation or can it sit on the floor if insulated with an air gap between the mattress not sure about this side of thing do you know?  thanks

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I made my bed frame (just a box with angle brackets from B&Q)  from 18mm ply to accommodate 2 x 400L water tanks underneath each completely enclosed in Celotex  to take my fixed 1400 x 2000mm mattress bought from Ikea sitting on sprung slats also from Ikea. This in a NB.  They are slightly off centre to allow a narrow passage down one side. I drilled holes in the 8 inch lids to take inlet pipe, outlet pipe, breather, & tank level sensor. These tanks were much cheaper than anything from TekTanks.

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12 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I made my bed frame (just a box with angle brackets from B&Q)  from 18mm ply to accommodate 2 x 400L water tanks underneath each completely enclosed in Celotex  to take my fixed 1400 x 2000mm mattress bought from Ikea sitting on sprung slats also from Ikea. This in a NB.  They are slightly off centre to allow a narrow passage down one side. I drilled holes in the 8 inch lids to take inlet pipe, outlet pipe, breather, & tank level sensor. These tanks were much cheaper than anything from TekTanks.

Hi thanks for that that is really useful is your tanks raised from the floor or sitting flat on the floor and are framed i.e separate frame from the bed or just sitting under hope what I am asking makes sense but trying to understand whether apart from making the box whether the tanks need to be raised or just left on the floor but insulated and with air gap above thanks really good advice with this frame and think I may well go this way 

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Tanks sit on 1" Celotex on floor (which is 25mm ply). Celotex on sides and top. No air pockets. The  frame is like a cube with top & bot missing. Strength is from 6? " angle plates from B&Q at corners and all along the base edges to provide sifficient strength to stop the tanks sliding under most conditions. All pipework is through the top as more secure, the pump sucks quite happily.  If I can find a pic I'll post it tomorrow. Must dash.

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8 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Tanks sit on 1" Celotex on floor (which is 25mm ply). Celotex on sides and top. No air pockets. The  frame is like a cube with top & bot missing. Strength is from 6? " angle plates from B&Q at corners and all along the base edges to provide sifficient strength to stop the tanks sliding under most conditions. All pipework is through the top as more secure, the pump sucks quite happily.  If I can find a pic I'll post it tomorrow. Must dash.

Thank you very much 

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8 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Tanks sit on 1" Celotex on floor (which is 25mm ply). Celotex on sides and top. No air pockets. The  frame is like a cube with top & bot missing. Strength is from 6? " angle plates from B&Q at corners and all along the base edges to provide sifficient strength to stop the tanks sliding under most conditions. All pipework is through the top as more secure, the pump sucks quite happily.  If I can find a pic I'll post it tomorrow. Must dash.

Thanks again for this sorry to keep asking you questions but am I right you make a rectangle frame for the tanks out of celotex 1 inch board and 18 inch ply all sides and top and they sits on 1 inch celotex ?  if you have any pics I would really appreciate it as I really like this solution and think this is ideal for us.

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I elected to go for an Ikea good-sized mattress 1400 x 2000mm because I've lived with unfixed beds and they rapidly become extremely tedious to erect and because I've lived with small beds and they soon become a pain.  In a NB this means a narrow side passage, not suitable for heavily-oversized people. I chose the particular Ikea one because they did the sprung-slats in that size.  It also fixes the width. 

I chose the tanks because they are high quality & much cheaper than "marine" supplied tanks.  They were from Smiths of the Dean:

 

400-baffled-tank-w5.JPG

I went for two so this fixed the length.

The width is bigger than the tanks so the tanks sit inside the frame nearest the passage to keep the centre of mass of the tank water as close to the centre of the boat as possible to minimise listing. I filled the space on the other side with spare celotex as it is not big enough to find a use for.

The length is about 6" longer than the bed and I have just covered it to make a shelf?

Yes, each tank has one inch celotex on all 6 sides.

The frame sits on the floor not on the celotex.

 

The slats structure sits on rails attached to the insides of the frame and onto  a central beam.

The roll is the Ikea mattress.

 

I don't get any condensation.

IMGP8737.JPG

IMGP8739.JPG

IMGP6122.JPG

Edited by system 4-50
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3 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I elected to go for an Ikea good-sized mattress 1400 x 2000mm because I've lived with unfixed beds and they rapidly become extremely tedious to erect and because I've lived with small beds and they soon become a pain.  In a NB this means a narrow side passage, not suitable for heavily-oversized people. I chose the particular Ikea one because they did the sprung-slats in that size.  It also fixes the width. 

I chose the tanks because they are high quality & much cheaper than "marine" supplied tanks.  They were from Smiths of the Dean:

 

400-baffled-tank-w5.JPG

I went for two so this fixed the length.

The width is bigger than the tanks so the tanks sit inside the frame nearest the passage to keep the centre of mass of the tank water as close to the centre of the boat as possible to minimise listing. I filled the space on the other side with spare celotex as it is not big enough to find a use for.

The length is about 6" longer than the bed and I have just covered it to make a shelf?

Yes, each tank has one inch celotex on all 6 sides.

The frame sits on the floor not on the celotex.

 

The slats structure sits on rails attached to the insides of the frame and onto  a central beam.

The roll is the Ikea mattress.

 

I don't get any condensation.

IMGP8737.JPG

IMGP8739.JPG

IMGP6122.JPG

Thank you so much for your images and detailed advice you have done a fantastic job of this and I really appreciated your help with this if I ever see you on the canals I will be sure to buy you a few beers  you have saved me a huge amount of time and fuss cheers

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2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Thank you so much for your images and detailed advice you have done a fantastic job of this and I really appreciated your help with this if I ever see you on the canals I will be sure to buy you a few beers  you have saved me a huge amount of time and fuss cheers

Hi again can I just double check celotex on the floor within the frame for the tank (that holds it in place)  or stick it on the tank first and then make a frame for the tank to stop it moving, am I correct that the tank does not need to sit off the ply floor if enclosed in celotex if we follow this or have you sat the tank off the floor on the frame i.e on a large piece of ply raised from the floor or does it matter as I may be misunderstanding when you say The frame sits on the floor not on the celotex cheers again

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24 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi again can I just double check celotex on the floor within the frame for the tank (that holds it in place)  or stick it on the tank first and then make a frame for the tank to stop it moving, am I correct that the tank does not need to sit off the ply floor if enclosed in celotex if we follow this or have you sat the tank off the floor on the frame i.e on a large piece of ply raised from the floor or does it matter as I may be misunderstanding when you say The frame sits on the floor not on the celotex cheers again

I’m pretty sure he meant he put a slab of Celotex on the floor and then put the tank on top if it. 

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Measure everything carefully and calculate the sizes of everything accurately.

Make the four sides of the frame.

Join the four sides together at the corners with brackets.

Place the frame on the floor in the desired position.  This is the floor that you walk on, not a "floor" of the frame.   

Use more brackets (a lot) to securely anchor the frame to the floor.

If using the same 2 tanks as I did you will need a low divider across the middle of the frame between the 2 tank spaces. Secure with more brackets.

Cover the floor inside the frame with celotex, as few pieces as possible.

Line the frame sides with celotex, I glued them in position.

Drop the tanks into the spaces, they should fit exactly except for the far side.

Pad the far side space with eg celotex

Cut more celotex for the tops of the tanks.

Fit rails & beam.

Fit slats.

Place mattress.

Test.

 

Does that help?

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11 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Measure everything carefully and calculate the sizes of everything accurately.

Make the four sides of the frame.

Join the four sides together at the corners with brackets.

Place the frame on the floor in the desired position.  This is the floor that you walk on, not a "floor" of the frame.   

Use more brackets (a lot) to securely anchor the frame to the floor.

If using the same 2 tanks as I did you will need a low divider across the middle of the frame between the 2 tank spaces. Secure with more brackets.

Cover the floor inside the frame with celotex, as few pieces as possible.

Line the frame sides with celotex, I glued them in position.

Drop the tanks into the spaces, they should fit exactly except for the far side.

Pad the far side space with eg celotex

Cut more celotex for the tops of the tanks.

Fit rails & beam.

Fit slats.

Place mattress.

Test.

 

Does that help?

Perfect t hanks off to buy some wood today you have been a massive help with this thank you

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I expect you will devise your own means of attaching pipes etc.  I used JG speedfit tank connectors with the core drilled through so the pipe could go right through.

Edit:

There is a takeoff (1"??) on these tanks but I'm prejudiced against using it. I blanked them off.

Edited by system 4-50
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14 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Measure everything carefully and calculate the sizes of everything accurately.

Make the four sides of the frame.

Join the four sides together at the corners with brackets.

Place the frame on the floor in the desired position.  This is the floor that you walk on, not a "floor" of the frame.   

Use more brackets (a lot) to securely anchor the frame to the floor.

If using the same 2 tanks as I did you will need a low divider across the middle of the frame between the 2 tank spaces. Secure with more brackets.

Cover the floor inside the frame with celotex, as few pieces as possible.

Line the frame sides with celotex, I glued them in position.

Drop the tanks into the spaces, they should fit exactly except for the far side.

Pad the far side space with eg celotex

Cut more celotex for the tops of the tanks.

Fit rails & beam.

Fit slats.

Place mattress.

Test.

 

Does that help?

Another benefit of using two smaller tanks instead of one large tank is that it will minimise surge from side to side, we had to install baffles in our stainless tank (1200 litres).

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6 minutes ago, BWM said:

Another benefit of using two smaller tanks instead of one large tank is that it will minimise surge from side to side, we had to install baffles in our stainless tank (1200 litres).

Each of these plastic tanks has two baffles as standard. They are sold for use in vans by window cleaners.

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52 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Each of these plastic tanks has two baffles as standard. They are sold for use in vans by window cleaners.

Even better!

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are they confirmed as good for use with drinking water?

That would definitely be a concern to me, with all the health concerns about BPE in water bottles and the like.

Edited by BWM
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The standard tanks come with a vented lid.  If you want to do your own venting (you do) then you need to order them with an unvented lid.

 

From the Smiths of the Dean website:

"These are quality UK manufactured Tanks - the white and black versions are made from WRAS approved material.*
These tanks are a practical choice for valeting companies and window cleaners.  Each tank comes with a vented lid 
as standard and a threaded nickel-plated brass outlet.  They can be customised to your requirements with the tap at any 
height and various size outlets.  Tanks can be linked together if needed.  Do you need it now?  We can dispatch or you 
can call in and pick one up.  Most tanks from stock.  Talk to us to discuss the tank you need on 01594 833308."

 

WRAS Material Approval: Non-metallic materials & components, such as rubber sheet material & ‘O’ rings, undergo testing only for their effects on water quality.  This type of approval demonstrates that the non-metallic material/component does not itself contaminate the water and therefore satisfies this particular requirement of regulations and byelaws.

 

This of course is not enough for complete peace of mind.  You should fill & empty the new tanks 10 times before use, and in normal use empty and refill the tanks if the water has been static for more than 12 hours. For drinking   pass the water through a Britarse filter 3 times and then boil. Always try the results on guests for 30 mins before consuming it yourself!

 

I drink it straight from the tank and I'm not entirely dead yet.  I do take care to run water through my filler hose for a bit before loading the tanks.

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2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

This of course is not enough for complete peace of mind.  You should fill & empty the new tanks 10 times before use, and in normal use empty and refill the tanks if the water has been static for more than 12 hours. For drinking   pass the water through a Britarse filter 3 times and then boil. Always try the results on guests for 30 mins before consuming it yourself!

:clapping::D:clapping:

 

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May I ask a question on the plumbing side of things? I take it the bottom hose fitting/take-off you mentioned wasn't used in case of leakage, the three pipes being filler, breather & take off + 2 tank-level senders. Do the filling pipes join into a single filler & do you draw off separately (tank1, tank2) etc or are they combined.

Great job BTW 

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2 minutes ago, Clodi said:

May I ask a question on the plumbing side of things? I take it the bottom hose fitting/take-off you mentioned wasn't used in case of leakage, the three pipes being filler, breather & take off + 2 tank-level senders. Do the filling pipes join into a single filler & do you draw off separately (tank1, tank2) etc or are they combined.

Great job BTW 

Each tank has:

    filler

    draw-off

    breather

    sensor (level)

A hozelock fitting in my well deck is connected to the fillers via a 12V electrically operated valve (each) under Teensy (~Arduino) control.

The draw-offs go to a valve enabling either or both tanks to be connected to the supply.  

The breathers are connected together and go out of the side.

 

The tank bottom takeoff is not used out of superstition and fear of leakage.  And awkwardness of installation and maintenance access.  

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Thank You for your clear explanation. Funnily enough I am just about to do a similar job, two tanks under the guest bed 1 of them diesel for the Heritage Stove 1 extra water. All our Kids are over 6' tall so the extra length of the Ikea beds +a shelf will do the trick.

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1 hour ago, Clodi said:

Thank You for your clear explanation. Funnily enough I am just about to do a similar job, two tanks under the guest bed 1 of them diesel for the Heritage Stove 1 extra water. All our Kids are over 6' tall so the extra length of the Ikea beds +a shelf will do the trick.

You're braver than me! I wouldn't do diesel because I'd be afraid of a smell regardless of how good the plumbing was! [Please don't take this as a negative vibe, I'm just being honest. :)]

Edited by system 4-50
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