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In previous discussions I've commented that spare part equivalent tables can be a bit of a lottery such that starting with a manufacturer's Part A,  equates to another's X, which equates to someone else's Q, etc, and then comes back to the original manufacturer's Part B. In other words  the genuine specification seems to get lost in the translation. Today I discovered another example: my starter battery alternator belt is a Mitsuboshi REMF 6415, for which I carry an equivalent spare - an AVX 13x1065.  So, I come to swap it out today as a precautionary measure since its getting on a bit... and the 1065 is about 20mm too short and won't go over all the pulleys.  No drama today, since I was replacing the belt before failure, but I've been carrying that "equivalent" spare for a while now and it would have been no help at all in an emergency!  Be careful out there, y'all! :help:

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10 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

In previous discussions I've commented that spare part equivalent tables can be a bit of a lottery such that starting with a manufacturer's Part A,  equates to another's X, which equates to someone else's Q, etc, and then comes back to the original manufacturer's Part B. In other words  the genuine specification seems to get lost in the translation. Today I discovered another example: my starter battery alternator belt is a Mitsuboshi REMF 6415, for which I carry an equivalent spare - an AVX 13x1065.  So, I come to swap it out today as a precautionary measure since its getting on a bit... and the 1065 is about 20mm too short and won't go over all the pulleys.  No drama today, since I was replacing the belt before failure, but I've been carrying that "equivalent" spare for a while now and it would have been no help at all in an emergency!  Be careful out there, y'all! :help:

 

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21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I bet its on a Vetus.

 

The thermostat cover that is a Vetus part and it is too fat so it fouls the alternator on at least some Vetus-Mitsubishi engines. Just sloppy design.

 

Tony, it's the ubiquitous Beta 43.  Nothing in the way (except the big domestic alternator belt, but that was off for changing too) - it's simply about 20mm shorter than that fitted. Allowing a few mil for stretch, I reckon the original must have been more like 1075 than the1065 of my "equivalent".  The old belt is still in pretty good shape so there's no need to get my pantyhose in a bunch @Alan de Enfield

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I think some belts are specified by the internal dimension of the loop, and some by the external dimension, which can easily result in you getting one the wrong size.

 

On my Beta 43 it's specified as a 13×990 Li and I assume the Li stands for Length internal. Though I see that's a lot shorter than yours.

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Back in the day, I had need of a new rear wheel cylinder for a Fiat Panda (the original, like an Italian 2CV) It turned out that the thread on the hydraulic union may be one of three different sizes, and there was no way to tell, from vehicle age, registration, or VIN number, which one would have been fitted.

 

MP.

 

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My Beta 43 uses the same Mitsubishi belt to drive the engine starter battery alternator, but it needs the adjuster to be almost on its largest setting and as soon as the belt stretches it becomes too loose and soon I run out of adjustment in the adjuster. I replaced it with an AVX 13x1065 belt. That is a struggle to get over the pulleys (i used a screwdriver to help it) but once over them is correctly adjusted with the adjuster at its shortest setting. As the belt stretches in the first hour or two of running it needs readjusting but then the adjuster is left with loads of adjustment in it.

 

 

Edited by cuthound
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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I bet its on a Vetus.

 

The thermostat cover that is a Vetus part and it is too fat so it fouls the alternator on at least some Vetus-Mitsubishi engines. Just sloppy design.

 

My Vetus M415 does exactly this. The belt that does fit mine is  Gates 6220MC AVX10x1000La
I am unsure about the slightly larger M417 which appears in many canal boats..

From:https://www.tyma.eu/caste-dotazy/znaceni-klinovych-remenu/

What do the abbreviations Li, La, Lw, Le, Ld mean?

  • Li = belt inner length
  • La = belt outer length
  • Lw = belt working length (Lw = Ld)
  • Le = belt effective length

The conditions are given among these lengths. There exists a precise formula for converting lengths for individual V-belts. 

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

My Beta 43 uses the same Mitsubishi belt to drive the engine starter battery alternator, but it needs the adjuster to be almost on its largest setting and as soon as the belt stretches it becomes too loose and soon I run out of adjustment in the adjuster. I replaced it with an AVX 13x1065 belt. That is a struggle to get over the pulleys (i used a screwdriver to help it) but once over them is correctly adjusted with the adjuster at its shortest setting. As the belt stretches in the first hour or two of running it needs readjusting but then the adjuster is left with loads of adjustment in it.

 

 

Ah, that's interesting CH, thanks.   I'm not unfamiliar with having to 'persuade' things to fit, but the 1065 seemed a stretch too far, particularly when levering against round, rotating objects!  I still think the 1065 a pretty rough equivalent and I'd say a 1075 would be a tight but better choice to facilitate replacement and avoid potential injury, but perhaps your success indicates that another go is in order?  Trouble is, that involves a fair bit of moving the boxing in and taking off the big alternator belt, so I might just source a pukka REMF6415 from Beta before I try it so I don't need a third go!  There's always a space for it in my  spares box if I can pry the 1065 on.  Thanks again for  relating your experience. :)

 

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4 hours ago, catweasel said:

My Vetus M415 does exactly this. The belt that does fit mine is  Gates 6220MC AVX10x1000La
I am unsure about the slightly larger M417 which appears in many canal boats..

From:https://www.tyma.eu/caste-dotazy/znaceni-klinovych-remenu/

What do the abbreviations Li, La, Lw, Le, Ld mean?

  • Li = belt inner length
  • La = belt outer length
  • Lw = belt working length (Lw = Ld)
  • Le = belt effective length

The conditions are given among these lengths. There exists a precise formula for converting lengths for individual V-belts. 

My Vetus M4.17 is specified with an AVX 10x995.  Almost impossible to fit, but a 10x1000 goes on nicely with still plenty of adjustment.

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9 minutes ago, dor said:

My Vetus M4.17 is specified with an AVX 10x995.  Almost impossible to fit, but a 10x1000 goes on nicely with still plenty of adjustment.

Maybe because the man who fitted the original had the engine sitting on a bench at waist height, lots of light in a workshop at 20 deg. and not hanging by his toes in an engine hole with rain down his neck

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4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe because the man who fitted the original had the engine sitting on a bench at waist height, lots of light in a workshop at 20 deg. and not hanging by his toes in an engine hole with rain down his neck

My guess is that the Base mitsubishi engine comes from India with fan belt in place. Vetus then fit the marine thernostat housing restricting alt movement, making belt hard to remove or replace. Think I put a saw through original but it was 15 years agof. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just to wrap this up, particularly for Beta 43 owners...

 

Having found the REMF6415 equivalent of AVX13x1065 to be too short to get over the pulleys, I took a chance on a 13x1085. I fitted that today and, whilst it took a bit of getting over the last pulley, it's on and runs silently.  Having found the OEM item at 20 quid plus vat and postage, I sourced a genuine Continental Conti tech cogged belt at £4.99 delivered in 48hrs from eBay. I though I'd risked an unknown company, but the invoice shows it to have been another arm of Euro Car Parts. So  at 1/5th the price of a hard to source OEM for a top make from a motor factor, I'd say that was a bit of a result. :)

 

Edited by Sea Dog
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Using a screwdriver to lever a belt over a pulley is a poor idea, its easy to damage the pulley edge and the belt cords.

The best way is to get it on as for as possible, loop a piece of rag around the belt on the slack side of the pulley, hold both ends in one hand and jab the starter to pull the belt over the pulley. 

Easier to do than explain but its a safe method, no lost fingers, no blood or damage.

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3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Using a screwdriver to lever a belt over a pulley is a poor idea, its easy to damage the pulley edge and the belt cords.

The best way is to get it on as for as possible, loop a piece of rag around the belt on the slack side of the pulley, hold both ends in one hand and jab the starter to pull the belt over the pulley. 

Easier to do than explain but its a safe method, no lost fingers, no blood or damage.

Yep, I agree - no screwdrivers were hurt in the evolution. My technique is to make sure the last pulley is a free runner (in this case the water pump) and turn it so it applies the pressure for the belt climb itself over the lip.

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10 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Yep, I agree - no screwdrivers were hurt in the evolution. My technique is to make sure the last pulley is a free runner (in this case the water pump) and turn it so it applies the pressure for the belt climb itself over the lip.

^^^

Sound method.

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