Ghemmie Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Hello, We are getting our first boat next month and we have a lot of family members and friends who are already asking if they would be allowed to borrow it for a weekend. Whilst I have absolutely no problem lending her out to the more responsible people I know, I'm not quite sure where we stand with insurance. To be clear, we absolutely would NOT be hiring the boat out for any profit. I am only talking about letting mum, dad, best mates go off for a long weekend without us (the owners). They would only pay for any fuel/ pump outs that they used. Would they be covered under our insurance? Do we have to get special insurance or make a request of the insurance company? Or would it be better if individuals got their own insurance for the year (still cheaper than hiring a boat for a weekend)? Any advice greatly appreciated as we need to purchase insurance in the next week. Thanks, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 My insurance co allows lending the boat so long as no money is paid. However other insurance companies may be different, suggest you ask. If planning to lend it often, it may be cheaper to pay a bit more for insurance that allows lending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghemmie Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Thanks Chewbacka, do you mind me asking who your insurance company is? I can't imagine us lending it more that 2 - 3 times a year so I don't want to make life complicated for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, Ghemmie said: Hello, We are getting our first boat next month and we have a lot of family members and friends who are already asking if they would be allowed to borrow it for a weekend. Whilst I have absolutely no problem lending her out to the more responsible people I know, I'm not quite sure where we stand with insurance. To be clear, we absolutely would NOT be hiring the boat out for any profit. I am only talking about letting mum, dad, best mates go off for a long weekend without us (the owners). They would only pay for any fuel/ pump outs that they used. Would they be covered under our insurance? Do we have to get special insurance or make a request of the insurance company? Or would it be better if individuals got their own insurance for the year (still cheaper than hiring a boat for a weekend)? Any advice greatly appreciated as we need to purchase insurance in the next week. Thanks, Gemma Surely, in circumstances like this, the quickest and best way to find out where you would stand is to ask any insurance company the direct question when you ask for insurance quotes, and go with the one that best suits your circumstances? Personally, I think you may get conflicting advice from a forum, which may lead you down the wrong path.As an example, in boats with multiple owners such as mine, the insurance cover obviously covers all part owners. However, each owner (both man and wife) have to answer certain questions regarding ability, health and basic insurance history . I would want to know from an insurance company if they would require the borrowers to answer the same questions? Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghemmie Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Thanks Howardang. I have indeed gone to quite a few insurance companies and asked, but I don't seem to be getting any replies. So I thought I would ask here to try and narrow my search before I start calling every company Google throws up at me. Totally new to this and grateful for any advice and tips that people have the time to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracer Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Ghemmie said: Thanks Howardang. I have indeed gone to quite a few insurance companies and asked, but I don't seem to be getting any replies. So I thought I would ask here to try and narrow my search before I start calling every company Google throws up at me. Totally new to this and grateful for any advice and tips that people have the time to spare. I'm sure my insurance (Towergate) covers that - I've just checked the policy wording to make sure, it says "We will insure Insure anyone else who is navigating or in charge of Your Boat with Your permission." I thought it was standard for such policies, though you are wise to check (whilst my boat is my home, it is important for me - I have already let a friend take the helm whilst I was working the locks). It might be a pain, but if you want to check you should be able to find policy wording online - I didn't try this when I got marine insurance, but I've certainly done that to check household policies in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magictime Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 We're with GJW and I asked this question specifically when taking out the policy. They said yes the boat remains insured whoever is on board (with my permission). FWIW we had a very good experience with GJW when we had to make a £3000 claim after an incident of theft and vandalism on our previous boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, aracer said: I'm sure my insurance (Towergate) covers that - I've just checked the policy wording to make sure, it says "We will insure Insure anyone else who is navigating or in charge of Your Boat with Your permission." I thought it was standard for such policies, though you are wise to check (whilst my boat is my home, it is important for me - I have already let a friend take the helm whilst I was working the locks). It might be a pain, but if you want to check you should be able to find policy wording online - I didn't try this when I got marine insurance, but I've certainly done that to check household policies in the past. Hi Aracer. It may be worth just checking your insurance documents not just the policy booklet. Our syndicate boat has been insured with Towergate for many years and in every year's policy renewal documents under the "Statement of Fact - General Details" it says:- "The following information is true to my best knowledge and belief. 1 You or any person who uses the inland craft, or the directors where the proper is a limited company 2 Have had any accidents or loss in the past 5 years with any craft you have owned......Yes/No 3 Have been convicted of any offence other than minor motoring offences (speeding or parking offences) in the past 5 years....Yes/No 4 Have been refused or declined insurance or had increased premiums or special terms imposed in the past 5 years.........Yes/No 5 Suffered from diabetes, epilepsy, a heart condition or any other physical infirmity or disease within the past 5 years............Yes/No 6 Had any experience of using this or a similar type craft for more than 1 year............Yes/No Regarding 5, I clarified this and it only applies to any condition which is notifiable to the DVLA. There is nothing on our documents which indicate that the terms are different for a syndicate boat as opposed to a single owned boat, and I would have thought that if a boat is lent out to friends the same conditions would apply to any cover. With regard to our present shared boat, we circulate all the part owners each year for yes/no answers to these 6 questions and keep them on file. Regards Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracer Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, howardang said: Hi Aracer. It may be worth just checking your insurance documents not just the policy booklet. Our syndicate boat has been insured with Towergate for many years and in every year's policy renewal documents under the "Statement of Fact - General Details" it says:- Exactly the same on my terms for an individual policy. However I can't see anything requiring me to actually ask anybody - if anything it seems to me that I'm better off not asking anybody I lend my boat to, as I've completely fulfilled the obligations of "true to my best knowledge and belief" if I don't know about anything on that list (given that in the absence of any information otherwise it's reasonable to assume the correct answers). I suppose the last one is a bit tricky, but then AFAIK the only person so far I have left in charge when I wasn't aboard was a yes to that and I'm not sure I'd lend my boat to somebody with no experience (and I got a yes on the basis of having years of experience of other types of boat - I was perfectly honest in my conversation that I'd no narrowboating experience). Clearly it's different for a shared boat where you would be expected to get all owners to provide answers to those questions. Edited March 8, 2019 by aracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I am not sure an insurance company would be happy with your assumption about correct answers, and you may not find out until you make a claim. They may very well say that as the policy holder you have an obligation to satisfy yourself that all is as it should be. Let's hope you never have to find out Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracer Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Whether or not they are happy, they have no legal grounds to refuse a claim on the basis of that statement of fact provided the best of my knowledge is that none of those does apply to anybody using the boat. I'm happy enough with my understanding of legalese to be quite confident about that - it's fundamentally a contract law thing and they can't foist unwritten obligations to check on you. Without the "to my best knowledge and belief" bit things might be different, but that's essentially the term which removes any legal obligation to check (I suspect it's a required term as they can't oblige you to check, it would seem likely as asking some of those questions are legally problematic, but I CBA doing the research). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, aracer said: Whether or not they are happy, they have no legal grounds to refuse a claim on the basis of that statement of fact provided the best of my knowledge is that none of those does apply to anybody using the boat. I'm happy enough with my understanding of legalese to be quite confident about that - it's fundamentally a contract law thing and they can't foist unwritten obligations to check on you. Without the "to my best knowledge and belief" bit things might be different, but that's essentially the term which removes any legal obligation to check (I suspect it's a required term as they can't oblige you to check, it would seem likely as asking some of those questions are legally problematic, but I CBA doing the research). Fair enough. You are obviously much more knowledgeable than I am about insurance matters. Personally, I would prefer to err on the side of caution. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracer Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Not necessarily insurance, but I'm involved in contract law matters involving rather larger sums of money than my insurance will pay out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Ghemmie said: Thanks Chewbacka, do you mind me asking who your insurance company is? I can't imagine us lending it more that 2 - 3 times a year so I don't want to make life complicated for myself. I am also with GJW direct, phoned them a couple of times over the last few years and they were always helpful, though I have never needed to make a claim. When I checked with them before my son borrowed the boat they said so long as he is experienced and has basic competence then no problem. In answer to a comment above about the need to ask the borrower about accidents, I would feel it reasonable to check with them when assessing their competence level. I also told him that he must be in control of the boat at all times as his mates could not reasonably be called experienced, though they could drive the boat under his direct supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghemmie Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Hi all, Thanks so much for the help. We went with GJW in the end as they were the most helpful and transparent with my many, many queries. I will be making sure that I take Mum and Dad out a few times and am confident in their abilities before setting them loose alone. Pleased to say we completed the purchase on our first ever boat today and our insurance has kicked in. So if you see a little green trad called Teazel out and about then please say 'hi'. Can't wait to meet people and be a part of this community. Best wishes, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracer Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Well done - enjoy yourselves! Might well see you about if you're in Worcestershire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 On 08/03/2019 at 14:47, Chewbacka said: My insurance co allows lending the boat so long as no money is paid. However other insurance companies may be different, suggest you ask. If planning to lend it often, it may be cheaper to pay a bit more for insurance that allows lending. We are with Towergate and they are similar as above. They ask me if the people we lend the boat to are competent to our satisfaction. I always inform the insurance for the dates others are using it. I also give those borrowing the boat a letter worded something like this: "To whom it may concern. Mr & Mrs Joe Soap have my permission to have full usage of my Narrow Boat CRT No XXXXX, (Name) from 15th September 2013 until 23rd September for their use and pleasure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Ray T said: We are with Towergate and they are similar as above. They ask me if the people we lend the boat to are competent to our satisfaction. I always inform the insurance for the dates others are using it. I also give those borrowing the boat a letter worded something like this: "To whom it may concern. Mr & Mrs Joe Soap have my permission to have full usage of my Narrow Boat CRT No XXXXX, (Name) from 15th September 2013 until 23rd September for their use and pleasure." As I have memtioned earlier, I have neen with Towergate for many years and I totally agree that they are happy for a friend etc can use the boat if the owners allow. However, if your policy document asks you to confirm that you can give satisfactory answers to the six questions regarding health, insurance history and boating competance, it is logicial to assume that the permission they gove for froends to use the boat would be conditional that the friends could give satisfactory answers to the questions. For example, you say that you satisfy yourself about their competance, but what about health or insurance history. Do you wquestion them about these aspects? I only raise it because we are all familiar with the way insurance companies look for ways to avoidvpaying a claim, and I find it difficult to believe that the questions only apply to the policy holder but not to friends. It is just not logical. Or maybe I'm just a great big cynic! Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 18 hours ago, Ghemmie said: Hi all, Thanks so much for the help. We went with GJW in the end as they were the most helpful and transparent with my many, many queries. I will be making sure that I take Mum and Dad out a few times and am confident in their abilities before setting them loose alone. Pleased to say we completed the purchase on our first ever boat today and our insurance has kicked in. So if you see a little green trad called Teazel out and about then please say 'hi'. Can't wait to meet people and be a part of this community. Best wishes, Gemma Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of boating! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, cuthound said: Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of boating! ? Teazel: Neat boat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Navy Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Most insurance covers other persons in charge but I would suggest you remind anyone who ends up driving your boat that alcohol and insurance companies don't mix. If there is an incident and alcohol is involved.......it'll end up in your lap....... (not the alcohol, either!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fly Navy said: Most insurance covers other persons in charge but I would suggest you remind anyone who ends up driving your boat that alcohol and insurance companies don't mix. If there is an incident and alcohol is involved.......it'll end up in your lap....... (not the alcohol, either!). Thats an interesting comment when you consider some of the day boats that get out and about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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