First volockie irritation of the year.

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, captain birdseye said:

I notice non of the historic brigade who went to Hebden Bridge have been on saying as how they love the enjoyment of working all the locks themselves and don't like vollies butting in. They were only too thankful to have help up out of Manchester as are the vast majority of boaters we assist, lots contact CRT and ask if there is a volunteer available: either on the Rochdale through and out of the city and also up the Ashton and canal. Perhaps it just depends on where you are boating. 

 

As one of those historics I can confirm that the volunteer who accompanied us much of the way in both directions is himself a historic boat owner, knows the Rochdale Canal like the back of his hand, and is an occasional poster here. His detailed knowledge of shallow spots to avoid, which gates don't open fully or paddles which don't work, which pounds will drop of their own accord etc. was invaluable. He spent much of the trip cyling up and down the towpath, setting ahead, closing up behind, assisting the various boats in the convoy, keeping us all informed, and on the way up bringing water down in front of us as required. What he didn't do was avoid eye contact, draw paddles without asking or any of the other things which some on this thread have criticised.

If only more vollies were like him!

Edited August 27, 2019 by David Mack

[frangar]

31 minutes ago, captain birdseye said:

I notice non of the historic brigade who went to Hebden Bridge have been on saying as how they love the enjoyment of working all the locks themselves and don't like vollies butting in. They were only too thankful to have help up out of Manchester as are the vast majority of boaters we assist, lots contact CRT and ask if there is a volunteer available: either on the Rochdale through and out of the city and also up the Ashton and canal. Perhaps it just depends on where you are boating. 

I wouldn’t be so sure. 

[Jim Riley]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

As one of those historics I can confirm that the volunteer who accompanied us much of the way in both directions is himself a historic boat owner, knows the Rochdale Canal like the back of his hand, and is an occasional poster here. His detailed knowledge of shallow spots to avoid, which gates don't open fully or paddles which don't work, which pounds will drop of their own accord etc. was invaluable. He spent much of the trip cyling up and down the towpath, setting ahead, closing up behind, assisting the various boats in the convoy, keeping us all informed, and on the way up bringing water down in front of us as required. What he didn't do was avoid eye contact, draw paddles without asking or any of the other things which some on this thread have criticised.

If only more vollies were like him!

I can confirm this, as an ordinary boater, the same chap helped us up and down the Newton Heath stretch. Spot on. 

[Jerra]

2 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I usually find that it takes two to tango and if a volockie gets the hump, it's usually caused by another party.

And if a boater gets the hump..................

[Guest]

Just now, Jerra said:

And if a boater gets the hump..................

I think the same rule applies!

[haza]

hi all you loverly boating people .... if only hay ?.. i started to read this thread at the start ,,but it went on and on and on ,,and on and on ,thats enough of the and ons  i think ..so after about 4 pages in  i stopped reading the thread ,.the volockies  as you lot call them ..i like to call the  volunteers myself. do more then a good service then a bad one .but thats only me .saying that ...being a live aboard for a few years ..i have had run ins with most on the cut ..some may have been my fault .but i think not as i think i am perfect .but think on how many nasty know all boaters have you come across ...a dam site more then .nasty volockies .sorry volunteers ..i think ..well i dont think i know that fact ...any way i am going to make my volunteer a nice cup of tea ,,no boaters welcome 

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, haza said:

hi all you loverly boating people .... if only hay ?.. i started to read this thread at the start ,,but it went on and on and on ,,and on and on ,thats enough of the and ons  i think ..so after about 4 pages in  i stopped reading the thread ,.the volockies  as you lot call them ..i like to call the  volunteers myself. do more then a good service then a bad one .but thats only me .saying that ...being a live aboard for a few years ..i have had run ins with most on the cut ..some may have been my fault .but i think not as i think i am perfect .but think on how many nasty know all boaters have you come across ...a dam site more then .nasty volockies .sorry volunteers ..i think ..well i dont think i know that fact ...any way i am going to make my volunteer a nice cup of tea ,,no boaters welcome 

Haha well there is some truth in that, but the difference is that obnoxious boaters can be avoided, whereas volockies can’t (if you want to go through “their” lock when they are on).

[Jim Riley]

3 minutes ago, haza said:

hi all you loverly boating people .... if only hay ?.. i started to read this thread at the start ,,but it went on and on and on ,,and on and on ,thats enough of the and ons  i think ..so after about 4 pages in  i stopped reading the thread ,.the volockies  as you lot call them ..i like to call the  volunteers myself. do more then a good service then a bad one .but thats only me .saying that ...being a live aboard for a few years ..i have had run ins with most on the cut ..some may have been my fault .but i think not as i think i am perfect .but think on how many nasty know all boaters have you come across ...a dam site more then .nasty volockies .sorry volunteers ..i think ..well i dont think i know that fact ...any way i am going to make my volunteer a nice cup of tea ,,no boaters welcome 

No one is saying all volunteer lockside staff are bad. All that is being asked is that Volockies follow their training. Some do, some don't. This is a problem caused by lack of supervision, monitoring and top up training if required. 

What would be wrong with that? 

[haza]

nothing  at all wrong in that ..never said there was 

[Jerra]

11 minutes ago, haza said:

 think on how many nasty know all boaters have you come across ...a dam site more then .nasty volockies

Of course I have come across more nasty boaters than volockies the number of boaters I have met out weighs the number of Volockies by a factor of many 10s perhaps even 100s.

 

So what people have to think about is either ratio or percentage.  If you have met 100 Volockies and 1 nasty one compared to 12 nasty boaters (in say 2000) at first glance your statement would seem true but you are meeting 1 in 100 in the volockies and 1 in 167 boaters.

 

Incidentally I am not saying your assertion is right or wrong merely that it doesn't really show if there are more or less nasty ones.

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Of course I have come across more nasty boaters than volockies the number of boaters I have met out weighs the number of Volockies by a factor of many 10s perhaps even 100s.

 

So what people have to think about is either ratio or percentage.  If you have met 100 Volockies and 1 nasty one compared to 12 nasty boaters (in say 2000) at first glance your statement would seem true but you are meeting 1 in 100 in the volockies and 1 in 167 boaters.

 

Incidentally I am not saying your assertion is right or wrong merely that it doesn't really show if there are more or less nasty ones.

But either way it doesn’t matter, because CRT doesn’t force us to interact with nasty boaters.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I think "more serious/continual" boaters that are whinging about volockies are more likely than not retirees who get to play with boats on a weekend, and probably have done for many years.

 

Of course that makes them far, far more serious boaters than those of us who live aboard.

I suppose that depends if the liveaboards move

[sirweste]

24 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I suppose that depends if the liveaboards move

I move, not anywhere near as much as others though and almost always in the evenings rather than at peak times when volockies would be present. 

 

This whole thread has basically highlighted the obvious.

 

1. Most volockies are good, a small proportion are bad; like all things in life really.

2. People who move a lot have significantly higher exposure to volockies than most boaters; so statistically are more likely to encounter bad ones

3. People who move a lot tend to be the ones who do it for the journey rather than the destination. Thus they prefer to work the locks themselves and as such are tuned in to volockies not following training and assuming the boater wants assistance.

4. Boaters happy/welcoming of assistance aren't likely to not notice the foibles of the volockies as they are just chuffed to have saved some time / effort.

5. CRT don't seem to have responded to any of the reports of bad volockie behaviour.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, captain birdseye said:

I notice non of the historic brigade who went to Hebden Bridge have been on saying as how they love the enjoyment of working all the locks themselves and don't like vollies butting in. They were only too thankful to have help up out of Manchester as are the vast majority of boaters we assist, lots contact CRT and ask if there is a volunteer available: either on the Rochdale through and out of the city and also up the Ashton and canal. Perhaps it just depends on where you are boating. 

 

It might have been nice to have some vollies, (or permanent CRT saff) available when after we had been trapped on there for 5 weeks longer than anybody expected, we were finally trying to make out get-away though!

That's not a dig at the (very good) local volunteers, but those of us with boats trapped in felt pretty let down by CRT in general, who made absolutely no attempt to find out the circumstances of those associated with each boat, or to offer anything to relieve their situation, such as an emergency water supply, or help with dealing with toilet tanks or rubbish, for those having zero access to any of those things.

 

Not CRT's finest hour!

 

[frangar]

9 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

It might have been nice to have some vollies, (or permanent CRT saff) available when after we had been trapped on there for 5 weeks longer than anybody expected, we were finally trying to make out get-away though!

That's not a dig at the (very good) local volunteers, but those of us with boats trapped in felt pretty let down by CRT in general, who made absolutely no attempt to find out the circumstances of those associated with each boat, or to offer anything to relieve their situation, such as an emergency water supply, or help with dealing with toilet tanks or rubbish, for those having zero access to any of those things.

 

Not CRT's finest hour!

 

That’s very frustrating...when I and other boats were stuck by the rufford breach I ended up with my one and only formal complaint into CRT about the lack of support for boaters caught up which was upheld...I hoped that might mean lessons had been learnt....sadly the Liverpool link breach and your experience say otherwise. 

[matty40s]

I find the most enjoyable thing to happen in the last two weeks is the lifting of the daft lock closure timings that have been plaguing the central GU since someone decided that reservoirs at 75% or more capacity was crisis time, regardless of the rain falling through June July and early August.

We can now go out cruising late on Friday and actually use locks, get somewhere more interesting than Gayton Junction, and still get back on Sunday evening. .....most locks done after the vollies have gone home. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by matty40s

[john6767]

4 hours ago, captain birdseye said:

I notice non of the historic brigade who went to Hebden Bridge have been on saying as how they love the enjoyment of working all the locks themselves and don't like vollies butting in. They were only too thankful to have help up out of Manchester as are the vast majority of boaters we assist, lots contact CRT and ask if there is a volunteer available: either on the Rochdale through and out of the city and also up the Ashton and canal. Perhaps it just depends on where you are boating. 

On a long flight help is certainly good, and with two of us a volunteer going ahead setting the locks is very helpful.  It is when they start messing with the lock that the boats is in without explicit permission that it is not good.

 

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

In my experience they tend to congregate either at the top two, or bottom two, of any lock flight, almost as though they have an invisible tether that won't let them stray any further. ?

Very true.  Hatton being a good example, they only every seem to be a the top, and on one occasion there were all 4 of them on the one lock by the welcome centre, and they would not allow us to work the lock in the way that we had worked all the identical locks to that point (just using the paddle on the boat side when going up) we had to faff their way and have the boat smashing around all over the place.

 

The probelem in many cases does seem to be that all they want to do is throw their weight around in places where there is a big crowd.  Most volunteers in quiet places where it is only you and them are much more helpful than those where there is a packed towpath or a cafe full of people watching.  It think the different types of location attract different types of people, and CRTs process go not seem to be controlling this.

[ditchcrawler]

I had one refer to me as a "smart arse" today, not to me I might add.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, john6767 said:

Most volunteers in quiet places where it is only you and them are much more helpful than those where there is a packed towpath or a cafe full of people watching.  It think the different types of location attract different types of people, and CRTs process go not seem to be controlling this.

 

That's a very perceptive insight, that rhymes with my own experiences of them vollies.

 

 

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, john6767 said:

On a long flight help is certainly good, and with two of us a volunteer going ahead setting the locks is very helpful.  It is when they start messing with the lock that the boats is in without explicit permission that it is not good.

 

Very true.  Hatton being a good example, they only every seem to be a the top, and on one occasion there were all 4 of them on the one lock by the welcome centre, and they would not allow us to work the lock in the way that we had worked all the identical locks to that point (just using the paddle on the boat side when going up) we had to faff their way and have the boat smashing around all over the place.

 

The probelem in many cases does seem to be that all they want to do is throw their weight around in places where there is a big crowd.  Most volunteers in quiet places where it is only you and them are much more helpful than those where there is a packed towpath or a cafe full of people watching.  It think the different types of location attract different types of people, and CRTs process go not seem to be controlling this.

Sorry but this bit is your fault. They have no power to allow or disallow anything. You should not submit to their imaginary power.

 

The rest, I agree with.

[MtB]

Vollies are like boat manoeuvres. The more people watching, the more difficult they get!

 

 

 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Vollies are like boat manoeuvres. The more people watching, the more difficult they get!

 

 

 

Mtb :Law number 2

[john6767]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Sorry but this bit is your fault. They have no power to allow or disallow anything. You should not submit to their imaginary power.

 

The rest, I agree with.

I did not give them permission to do that, there were 4 of them one on each gate, and the two at the top just opened both top paddles without asking. As you know it is very difficult when they just go ahead with what they want to do when you are on the boat.  Perhaps I worded it badly, in that I was not asked what I wanted them to do, they just when ahead before my wife had arrived at the lock.  I guess I could have just waited outside the lock until she was there, but I would bet that the guy on the offside would have opened the paddle irrespective if what she said we wanted.  Having this “help” at one lock in 21 is NOT help.  Having said that on a different occasion we have had good help at Hatton even though it is only ever on the top half of the flight.  

[MtB]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Mtb :Law number 2

 

Lol yes. 

 

In addition to all the traditional boating skills we now need to develop a 21st century one. "Vollie management". 

 

I think this is going to run and run and run. The (few) rogue vollies regard "their" lock as "their" domain and in their tiny minds you may pass through it but you must do it their way. The meek and mild submit to their domination without question and get through with no conflict and post on here about how lovely the experience was.

 

Others of us are developing the skill of "vollie management" but when we get it wrong, sparks fly.  

 

 

 

[Rob-M]

We are doing ok so far on this trip as the vollies must be on holiday or not working bank holiday weekends. We have come through Fradley locks and Curdworth locks today and there hasn't been a single volunteer on any of the locks.

 

I reckon CRT should change volunteer lockies to be a bookable service where you can ring a central number and request assistance on a flight of locks at a given time. That way only those that want help and book it will receive it.