First volockie irritation of the year.

[Sea Dog]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

There are very few absolute rules about locking through - except the one about being friendly to your fellow boaters - oh, and the lockie!

Beautifully steered back onto topic!  

[howardang]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

Beautifully steered back onto topic!  

Cue the "but this is a discussion forum and discussions evolve" brigade!?

 

Howard

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, howardang said:

Cue the "but this is a discussion forum and discussions evolve" brigade!?

 

Howard

Or, people who are truthful and realistic, as they are also known.

[Jerra]

7 minutes ago, Athy said:

Or, people who are truthful and realistic, as they are also known.

It is a pity you can't be given "Greenies.   Have a virtual one.

[howardang]

36 minutes ago, Athy said:

Or, people who are truthful and realistic, as they are also known.

So sorry - I should realise that a modest injection of humour, especially my poor attempt at it, may not be not the thing for a miserable Sunday morning!

 

Howard

 

may

[haza]

it will do for me howard any morning 

[Sea Dog]

43 minutes ago, howardang said:

Cue the "but this is a discussion forum and discussions evolve" brigade!?

 

Howard

I was admiring the craftsmanship; you can make your own judgement on the product! 

 

(I personally don't mind threads wandering, particularly after the OP has already received the advice/opinion sought, as it helps keeps the forum lively and interesting. Often, the fact the original question stays "alive" for so much longer means that the extended exposure leads to more useful answers.)

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, howardang said:

So sorry - I should realise that a modest injection of humour, especially my poor attempt at it, may not be not the thing for a miserable Sunday morning!

 

Howard

 

may

No apology necessary. I too occasionally make humorous comments - at least, I hope they are.

[tree monkey]

35 minutes ago, Athy said:

No apology necessary. I too occasionally make humorous comments - at least, I hope they are.

Citations please

 

[Sea Dog]

14 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Citations please

 

I'll vouch for the hoping part!

 

[aracer]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That's it, mine's only forty foot so iif you don't tie it up in any lock when you're not on it, it's quite capable of drifting back and then hurling itself at the gates. In a wide lock on its own, it is also quite capable of ending up in the middle unless you've got a bit of string to get it back to where you can reach the thing. With a small boat, the paddle opening arrangement sort of works, but not as well as with a bigun. 

And going down, these days I tend to pull it out of the lock whenever possible (it's quicker to shut the gates and then  get on board than driving out, mooring, going back etc.) rather than heave it back to the ladder and you need rope for that. 

Finally, going up or down, if there's no one on the boat and you haven't got a rope to hand and something goes wrong, where's your control? And if you don't tie the rope to something, it ends up in the canal and you're back where you started. 

Fair enough, mine's 60ft so I don't really have the same problem - though in narrow locks I'll leave it in tickover in gear going up so it keeps nudging the top gate and going down the water flow keeps it nudging the bottom gate until the lock has emptied. Does yours not do that?

 

Clearly our routines vary and the most important thing is to get a routine which works for you and to stick to it. I also probably do things differently to a lot of people (and not just because I'm a novice!) Do you really moor up when leaving a lock going down though? I haven't ever done that yet, simply held the stern in the tail of the lock and climbed the steps to close the gate (taking a rope with me, though I don't normally tie it to anything and it doesn't end up in the canal) Fairly straightforward on most locks - though I suspect I might be the only person ever to manage that on some of the Droitwich junction locks which don't have steps in the tails! Of course with a longer boat there's never any need to haul it back to the ladder - not that I use the ladder in most locks either, certainly not for getting back on board.

 

I'm thinking I could jump back on board and get to the controls just as quickly as doing anything with a rope - if something was going wrong I'd not bother with the ladder even on deep locks where I might normally use it. Again as I've said, I'm a bit different to most people.

 

Oh and given I've made an ample contribution to the vlockie debate, no apologies for steering the thread back off topic!

Edited March 10, 2019 by aracer

[Arthur Marshall]

6 minutes ago, aracer said:

Fair enough, mine's 60ft so I don't really have the same problem - though in narrow locks I'll leave it in tickover in gear going up so it keeps nudging the top gate and going down the water flow keeps it nudging the bottom gate until the lock has emptied. Does yours not do that?

 ... held the stern in the tail of the lock and climbed the steps to close the gate (taking a rope with me, though I don't normally tie it to anything and it doesn't end up in the canal)... not that I use the ladder in most locks either, certainly not for getting back on board.

No, I never leave it in gear going up, seen too many boats get the nose stuck somewhere (including mine with someone else doing it). Same going down, too many knackered gates with bits you can get hung up on. Just don't trust it, tied up in the middle is safe. I know lots of people swear by gate running, but as is always said, I run my boat how I feel safe, not how they do. I do more or less the same as you at the end when possible , except I pull it out with the rope, stop it in the tail, shut gates & go down. At nearly 70 i no longer feel safe jumping down onto the boat roof, plus as its probably nearly as old as me I might go straight through. Or miss. 

[Captain Pegg]

18 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

No, I never leave it in gear going up, seen too many boats get the nose stuck somewhere (including mine with someone else doing it). Same going down, too many knackered gates with bits you can get hung up on. Just don't trust it, tied up in the middle is safe. I know lots of people swear by gate running, but as is always said, I run my boat how I feel safe, not how they do. I do more or less the same as you at the end when possible , except I pull it out with the rope, stop it in the tail, shut gates & go down. At nearly 70 i no longer feel safe jumping down onto the boat roof, plus as its probably nearly as old as me I might go straight through. Or miss. 

 

With a short boat there is no need to make contact with the gates and I find it best to keep clear of them. Sticking a boat in the middle of a Worcs & Bham lock is no problem whatsoever but do it in a T&M or Staffs & Worcs lock when going uphill and you might just get shunted into the top gate at a rate of knots. I once tried to stop that happening by riding the gate at Colwich but the front fender got stuck underneath a timber baulk on the cill. Not helped by being low in the water and being able to snag things that most boats stems would oversail.

 

So I definitely agree with stick it in the middle and restrain it with a line round a bollard. I think the difference in people's practice can be explained in part by the particular characteristics of the locks they are used to operating.

 

JP

 

 

[aracer]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

So I definitely agree with stick it in the middle and restrain it with a line round a bollard. I think the difference in people's practice can be explained in part by the particular characteristics of the locks they are used to operating.

That's a fair point, I do know I'm spoilt by having the easiest locks - though I have also done Droitwich!

[Chris Williams]

When I used my 24 foot paddle boat, I had a line, about 40 foot long which was attached to both bow and stern.  I could then get off the boat and have control of both ends of it.  Very useful in Thames locks, where you do always use ropes.  On the canals, this was before the ladders were put in.  A lock had to be quite deep if I couldn't step onto the cabin top.  I certainly would not jump down any great height.  (Somerton Deep? - no way).

[howardang]

1 hour ago, aracer said:

Fair enough, mine's 60ft so I don't really have the same problem - though in narrow locks I'll leave it in tickover in gear going up so it keeps nudging the top gate and going down the water flow keeps it nudging the bottom gate until the lock has emptied. Does yours not do that?

 

Clearly our routines vary and the most important thing is to get a routine which works for you and to stick to it. I also probably do things differently to a lot of people (and not just because I'm a novice!) Do you really moor up when leaving a lock going down though? I haven't ever done that yet, simply held the stern in the tail of the lock and climbed the steps to close the gate (taking a rope with me, though I don't normally tie it to anything and it doesn't end up in the canal) Fairly straightforward on most locks - though I suspect I might be the only person ever to manage that on some of the Droitwich junction locks which don't have steps in the tails! Of course with a longer boat there's never any need to haul it back to the ladder - not that I use the ladder in most locks either, certainly not for getting back on board.

 

I'm thinking I could jump back on board and get to the controls just as quickly as doing anything with a rope - if something was going wrong I'd not bother with the ladder even on deep locks where I might normally use it. Again as I've said, I'm a bit different to most people.

 

Oh and given I've made an ample contribution to the vlockie debate, no apologies for steering the thread back off topic!

I would be concerned about nudging the top gate when single handing with the engine in gear. If the bow fender gets hung up how would you stop the engine before the foredeck gets swamped? With the standard of maintenance these days it could be a real issue.

 

Howard

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, howardang said:

If the bow fender gets hung up how would you stop the engine before the foredeck gets swamped?

A bow fender without a weak link might cause such a problem, but surely no-one still has that?

[Victor Vectis]

8 minutes ago, howardang said:

I would be concerned about nudging the top gate when single handing with the engine in gear. If the bow fender gets hung up how would you stop the engine before the foredeck gets swamped? With the standard of maintenance these days it could be a real issue.

 

Howard

By keeping an eye on the boat and taking action before anything untoward looks like happening.

 

Riding the top gate is my usual way of going uphill in narrow locks when single handing.

 

The only time we have had a problem was when the stern fender got caught between the gates going uphill at Camp Hill Bottom Lock.

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

By keeping an eye on the boat and taking action before anything untoward looks like happening.

 

Riding the top gate is my usual way of going uphill in narrow locks when single handing.

 

The only time we have had a problem was when the stern fender got caught between the gates going uphill at Camp Hill Bottom Lock.

Everyone has a different comfort zone, I think that was the OP's original point. Virtually all my boating has been solo, and I knew very little when I started, so I stick with what I know. I find most things happen very slowly on canals until something goes wrong, when it happens quick. You've only got to miss it by a few seconds as a mate of mine found in Wardle lock and, on your own, you may not have time to drop or raise paddles before it's too late. Forty years liveaboard experience and he still sank his boat. It's an individuals experience and knowledge of how his boat acts that counts - I've no criticism with anyone doing anything and enough people have told me they ride the gates to convince me it's probably safe for them, but I'm not convinced, so I don't. I like to be in control (as most of my band members have found to their cost!). 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

I would be concerned about nudging the top gate when single handing with the engine in gear. If the bow fender gets hung up how would you stop the engine before the foredeck gets swamped? With the standard of maintenance these days it could be a real issue.

 

Howard

I would drop the paddles

[howardang]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would drop the paddles

That of course is the standard response but ... look at Arthur's post above. There is very little tme before it'stoo late to be effective.  Even experienced boaters can get caught out.

 

Howard

[Rob-M]

And sometimes trying to drop a paddle can be harder than raising it in the first place. We had an issue coming up one of the wide locks on the T&M and Mrs-M wasn't able to simply drop the paddle. I was on the boat and had to get up the ladder to assist.

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

And sometimes trying to drop a paddle can be harder than raising it in the first place. We had an issue coming up one of the wide locks on the T&M and Mrs-M wasn't able to simply drop the paddle. I was on the boat and had to get up the ladder to assist.

That'll be where @nicknorman 's volocky went!

 

[ditchcrawler]

53 minutes ago, howardang said:

That of course is the standard response but ... look at Arthur's post above. There is very little tme before it'stoo late to be effective.  Even experienced boaters can get caught out.

 

Howard

A am aware of how fast things happen as last year I cilled my boat, it slowly drifted back. I could see what was happening  but from the time it touched the cill, to dropping the bottom paddles on one of the Chester Locks with the gearboxes it was down at quite an angle. What I did wrong was to walk back and try to pull the boat forward, I should have dropped the paddle first, but I thought I had time to leave the paddle, walk back and pull the boat forward with the centre line. I have also preventing another boat getting swamped when the back end got caught on the bottom gate of a GU lock while going up. In that case I had offered to help the boaters going up, all single handers but they refused my offer.  Its also the reason why I get off the boat when a volockie is working the lock. Do do anything you have to be by the paddle.

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A am aware of how fast things happen as last year I cilled my boat, it slowly drifted back. I could see what was happening  but from the time it touched the cill, to dropping the bottom paddles on one of the Chester Locks with the gearboxes it was down at quite an angle.

That's exactly how my friend's boat sank. He dropped the paddles as quick as he could, ran back to refill the lock to refloat it but was too late, it slid off the cill at the angle and went straight down. On your own you've got 2 paddles to drop and time is short.