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First volockie irritation of the year.


nicknorman

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8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

He seems to regard almost everyone as a pain, boaters, lockies and probably people with dogs. I'd imagine a sense of the ridiculous is necessary, the idea of someone at the bottom of a flight blowing the horn because no one is working the lock for them is just a joke - unless the lockie has told them not to do it themselves for some reason. I spot half a story here, like most stuff on NBW, which does rather specialise in disgruntlement. 

Probably in response to this   http://www.narrowboatworld.com/11343-shortage-of-volunteer-lock-keepers

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If you're going up, I would expect the boat owner to drop the paddles and close the gates while the lad went on to prepare the next lock. Easy enough on a narrow lock - that's what always happens when my wife's with me & I'm driving. She gets me going up, opens the gates and goes on, I do the rest. You have to wonder why the boater didn't, assuming they didn't.

ETA it's the boaters responsibility to leave the lock ready for the next user, surely,same as it's theirs to run the lock their way. 

That's what we do too but the boat owner just sailed off ? . I was standing at the bottom gate ready to raise the paddles when the top gate was shut and the paddle down. I would normally have walked up to the top gate and helped close up but when I saw that it was a paid volunteer, I stayed at the bottom gates.  

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If you're going up, I would expect the boat owner to drop the paddles and close the gates while the lad went on to prepare the next lock. Easy enough on a narrow lock - that's what always happens when my wife's with me & I'm driving. She gets me going up, opens the gates and goes on, I do the rest. You have to wonder why the boater didn't, assuming they didn't.

ETA it's the boaters responsibility to leave the lock ready for the next user, surely,same as it's theirs to run the lock their way. 

But that takes us back to the Volockies post on NBW, They expect him to do everything and just sit on the boat. I have BTW had boaters I m traveling with say that.

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8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But that takes us back to the Volockies post on NBW, They expect him to do everything and just sit on the boat. I have BTW had boaters I m traveling with say that.

To avoid any confusion, the guy who was presumably paid to help the boat in front was NOT a volockie and I have no idea what the agreement was between the boater and him. 

Haggis 

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2 hours ago, haggis said:

That's what we do too but the boat owner just sailed off ? . I was standing at the bottom gate ready to raise the paddles when the top gate was shut and the paddle down. I would normally have walked up to the top gate and helped close up but when I saw that it was a paid volunteer, I stayed at the bottom gates.  

 

haggis

In that instance I very definitely would have had words. When a lock is MY lock, that not only comes with rights but also responsibilities. Closing the gates and paddles is ultimately the responsibility of whoever is in charge of the boat (in a way the presence of a "volunteer" is almost irrelevant to the point). It's not like it's even that difficult a task when going up, even single handing.

 

Put simply, that boat owner is a dick.

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But that takes us back to the Volockies post on NBW, They expect him to do everything and just sit on the boat. I have BTW had boaters I m traveling with say that.

I don't really have any experience of that. Mostly I'm on my own and they ask me if I want them to work me through, I say yes and shall I come up and help and they say no so I stay on the tub. When I get up enough I hop off, chat and help open the gates and drop a paddle, then ask if they want me to stop and help close up. Seems only polite. Going down, you're stuck on the boat anyway till you get out, but I do ask if they want me to shut the gates and if not, check they have. I assumed that's what everyone did who accepts their help, anything else is just weird and a bit rude. I'm just grateful theyg save my knackered back and wonky knee a bit of wear and tear. 

As said elsewhere, it's the boater who is in charge so it's their responsibility to leave it right for the next one, lockie or not. 

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2 hours ago, haggis said:

To avoid any confusion, the guy who was presumably paid to help the boat in front was NOT a volockie and I have no idea what the agreement was between the boater and him. 

Haggis 

Rob the lock was helping boats through Stoke and up the Caldon when we last went that way. On our way back several boats from the boat club had booked him, he had the lift bridges open ready for them and also called ahead to his son to get the locks ready. He was whizzing about on his bike and gave us a card if we wanted assistance in the future.

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6 hours ago, Athy said:

Hmmm. If a boater sees a lock-keeper (be it a volunteer one or not) it is reasonable for him to assume that the lock-keeper is there to work the lock, is it not? I usually get off and join in, but on at least one occasion I've been told that I can stay on board and that the keeper will do the work.

Wake up at the back! As said somewhere 'up there' in the thread the volunteer lock-keeper is there to help work the lock, not just to do it automatically.

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't really have any experience of that. Mostly I'm on my own and they ask me if I want them to work me through, I say yes and shall I come up and help and they say no so I stay on the tub. When I get up enough I hop off, chat and help open the gates and drop a paddle, then ask if they want me to stop and help close up. Seems only polite. Going down, you're stuck on the boat anyway till you get out, but I do ask if they want me to shut the gates and if not, check they have. I assumed that's what everyone did who accepts their help, anything else is just weird and a bit rude. I'm just grateful theyg save my knackered back and wonky knee a bit of wear and tear. 

As said elsewhere, it's the boater who is in charge so it's their responsibility to leave it right for the next one, lockie or not. 

WRT single handers in wide locks, plenty of experience of them driving into the lock and staying at the tiller without regard!

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25 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 

WRT single handers in wide locks, plenty of experience of them driving into the lock and staying at the tiller without regard!

Well, not me. I always ask and if out first will open the next one and wait, if last tell the other I'll shut the gates. Singlehanders are used to working quickly alone, usually, and I'm not bothered if the crewed boat doesn't wait at the next lock. It's better to stay on the boat going up anyway for control, otherwise they have to hang about while I get up a ladder and tie the thing up. But I ask... 

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I assumed that's what everyone did who accepts their help, anything else is just weird and a bit rude.

As I keep saying, some people are (well you probably know the next word by now!)

 

I suppose the only difference for me is that I'd be more likely to hop off and help them without asking if they need my help (oops!) but then I like working locks and more capable than most at jumping on and off my boat.

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Well, not me. I always ask and if out first will open the next one and wait, if last tell the other I'll shut the gates. Singlehanders are used to working quickly alone, usually, and I'm not bothered if the crewed boat doesn't wait at the next lock. It's better to stay on the boat going up anyway for control, otherwise they have to hang about while I get up a ladder and tie the thing up. But I ask... 

Me neither - if I'm sharing a lock I'll always jump off and help (unless I'm told not to). It's part of the deal to share the work IMHO, even though I might expect a crewed boat to do a bit more of it given I can only be in one place at a time so can't work the lock whilst I'm driving in.

 

You tie up when sharing a wide lock Arthur? I don't think I ever did, but the only time I've shared wide locks so far was on my trip here in my first week of owning a boat so I'm open to advice - it doesn't seem it should be any more necessary than tying up in a narrow lock (which I never do), though I do tie up if alone in a wide lock (which I have done much more recently) for obvious reasons!

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1 hour ago, aracer said:

I do tie up if alone in a wide lock (which I have done much more recently) for obvious reasons!

A single boat can be held in a double lock without tying up by opening only the paddles on the opposite side.

GU.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

A single boat can be held in a double lock without tying up by opening only the paddles on the opposite side.

GU.jpg

I find that it is better to open the ground paddle on the same side as the boat. I also find that It is better not to open the gate paddle until the water level has risen and submerged the gate paddle. It reduces turbulence and avoid the possibility of flooding the foredeck.

 

Howard

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1 minute ago, howardang said:

I find that it is better to open the ground paddle on the same side as the boat. I also find that It is better not to open the gate paddle until the water level has risen and submerged the gate paddle. It reduces turbulence and avoid the possibility of flooding the foredeck.

 

Howard

On the improved gu locks open the single paddle on the boat side, water goes under boat and  holds over ( usually)

 

on double locks we open left ground a touch then right gate as chris williams says.

Not recommended for little boats.

of course if there is a velocky in the vicinity they have to be told ‘do nothing’ because no amount of explaining will de programme them.

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5 minutes ago, howardang said:

I find that it is better to open the ground paddle on the same side as the boat. I also find that It is better not to open the gate paddle until the water level has risen and submerged the gate paddle. It reduces turbulence and avoid the possibility of flooding the foredeck.

 

Howard

Due to the baffles fitted on most GU gates ,I open ground paddle boat side, gate paddle opposite side and then the other ground paddle......

All straight away in that order.

Boat stays where it should all the way up. If I know the bottom gates are very leaky I may open the other top gate paddle but most of the time there is no need .

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16 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

A single boat can be held in a double lock without tying up by opening only the paddles on the opposite side.

Is that sufficient to stop the boat drifting when the lock is nearly full, or completely full whilst you're opening the gate? If you're single handing it doesn't have to drift far away from the side to make things difficult...

 

Though in any case, as mentioned the standard advice is to open the ground paddle the same side as the boat. I note that the wide locks I use most often (and the only ones I've used since my first week on the boat) only have ground paddles at the top.

 

TBH it seems easier to just use a rope for what it's intended for and open both (or all for locks which have gate paddles) paddles. I always open the same side ground paddle first to keep the boat in, but then open the other paddle straight after - the top wide lock here is slow enough as it is even with both paddles open.

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2 hours ago, aracer said:

As I keep saying, some people are (well you probably know the next word by now!)

 

I suppose the only difference for me is that I'd be more likely to hop off and help them without asking if they need my help (oops!) but then I like working locks and more capable than most at jumping on and off my boat.

Me neither - if I'm sharing a lock I'll always jump off and help (unless I'm told not to). It's part of the deal to share the work IMHO, even though I might expect a crewed boat to do a bit more of it given I can only be in one place at a time so can't work the lock whilst I'm driving in.

 

You tie up when sharing a wide lock Arthur? I don't think I ever did, but the only time I've shared wide locks so far was on my trip here in my first week of owning a boat so I'm open to advice - it doesn't seem it should be any more necessary than tying up in a narrow lock (which I never do), though I do tie up if alone in a wide lock (which I have done much more recently) for obvious reasons!

I think it's good practice to have some means of controlling an unattended boat in a lock in any case but Arthur's boat is relatively short. There are even more reasons to take a line ashore when you have a short boat no matter what size of lock or whether you are sharing.

 

JP

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2 minutes ago, aracer said:

Is that sufficient to stop the boat drifting when the lock is nearly full, or completely full whilst you're opening the gate?

The boat was in ahead gear and pushed the gate open.  But you mustn't do that now, it was a long time ago.

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1 hour ago, Chris Williams said:

A single boat can be held in a double lock without tying up by opening only the paddles on the opposite side.

GU.jpg

And if you do that on most of the Northern canals you will drain the pound above you and still not get through the lock.

 

Line to a bollard and open all paddles is the only way to make a level on some of these locks.  Dropping a cabin shaft down the tailgate mitre helps on quite a few too.

 

There are a couple of locks that prefer the gangplank!

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13 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Wake up at the back! As said somewhere 'up there' in the thread the volunteer lock-keeper is there to help work the lock, not just to do it automatically.

 

Perhaps so, but there's a difference between the role of a lock-keeper as stated by CART and as perceived by some boaters.

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8 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I think it's good practice to have some means of controlling an unattended boat in a lock in any case but Arthur's boat is relatively short. There are even more reasons to take a line ashore when you have a short boat no matter what size of lock or whether you are sharing.

 

JP

That's it, mine's only forty foot so iif you don't tie it up in any lock when you're not on it, it's quite capable of drifting back and then hurling itself at the gates. In a wide lock on its own, it is also quite capable of ending up in the middle unless you've got a bit of string to get it back to where you can reach the thing. With a small boat, the paddle opening arrangement sort of works, but not as well as with a bigun. 

And going down, these days I tend to pull it out of the lock whenever possible (it's quicker to shut the gates and then  get on board than driving out, mooring, going back etc.) rather than heave it back to the ladder and you need rope for that. 

Finally, going up or down, if there's no one on the boat and you haven't got a rope to hand and something goes wrong, where's your control? And if you don't tie the rope to something, it ends up in the canal and you're back where you started. 

  • Greenie 1
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9 hours ago, howardang said:

I find that it is better to open the ground paddle on the same side as the boat. I also find that It is better not to open the gate paddle until the water level has risen and submerged the gate paddle. It reduces turbulence and avoid the possibility of flooding the foredeck.

 

Howard

Depends on which locks and how they were built. You do have to have been through them to know which are which. In some cases, it is important to know

 

(a) where to position the boat fore and aft, right froward has a different effect from back a bit

(b) when to with over to using the gate paddles to hold the boat - usually the opposite one first

(c) what to do when one or more of the gate or ground paddles is not provided or functioning

 

There are very few absolute rules about locking through - except the one about being friendly to your fellow boaters - oh, and the lockie!

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