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We have a fuel polishing kit at the boat club. Members are charged £30 inc 1 filter. The last batch of filters we bought were £21 each. If fuel is really dirty (black) we suggest siphoning the  bottom of the tank first. £583.70 is very excessive IMO.

Edited by Midnight
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11 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I'm no longer surprised when I hear tales off folk being ripped off by so called experts, it happens in all manner of businesses unfortunately.

 

There is a simple answer, just refuse to pay, invite the firm to sue for the money and let them take you to county court. Almost always these sort of cowboys won't because they know that they cannot pull the wool over a registrar's eyes.

 

Were gold plated filters used?

Never seen any filters at that sort of price, the makers would never get any sales.

 

Always demand a "Quotation" not an estimate.

 

The whole episode was uncalled for anyway, if the fuel is so contaminated simply suck it out and dump it, your tank if full to the brim holds around 200 litres.

All I have ever done is use a vac and  a length of copper pipe to suck the bottom of the tank in the lowest corner via the fill access. Never used a fuel additive.

In the old days the boater would dump his sump oil into the fuel tank and burn it, its only these fussy new engine fuel pumps that don't like a bit of dark in the fuel.

Water in diesel will settle out if left long enough.

 

Since the days of the working boater two things have happened to diesel.

 

1. The sulphur content has dropped from 5% to 0.001%. The diesel bug is pretty much killed off with such a high sulphur content.

 

2. Most red diesel contains up 7% bio content. This is hydrophilic, so allows water to be absorbed by the bio content part of the diesel. This encourages the growth of diesel bug in the fuel/ware interface also biodiesel begins to decompose after 6 months in ideal conditions.

 

The best way to minimise the risk of diesel bug is to by FAME free (diesel without a bio content which is permitted for standby diesel generators and other uses where the fuel turnover is low) where possible and to drain any water from the base of the fuel tank annually in the Spring.

 

As belt and braces you could add a fuel treatment containing a biocide to rhe first tankfull after draining the tank of water and a fuel treatment containing an emulsifier to the last tankfull if you leave the boat unused over winter.

Edited by cuthound
Clarification
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23 hours ago, frangar said:

A can of easy start is hardly good practice to get an engine going under any circumstance let alone one that has just been fuel polished....

That's an understatement. Easy start is terrible stuff and damages engines and makes them harder to start in the future, requiring more easy start, causing more damage, requiring more easy start etc. etc. Easy start is highly volatile which starts the engine, but it also washes the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls thereby increasing wear of the piston rings & cylinders. This reduces the compression ratio of the engine due to leakage past the wear and makes the engine harder to start next time. Easy start is the mark of a cowboy.

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35 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Whilst buying FAME free is a good idea, the last few times I have bought diesel I have asked if it contains bio diesel, and the answer has always been yes.  So not sure if it is easily available canal side.

 

Norbury Wharf sells FAME free, as does my local supplier, fuel boat Auriga. 

 

I am pretty sure there will be others around the system.

 

Perhaps we should start a seperate thread on FAME free fuel suppliers and pin it?

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Norbury Wharf sells FAME free, as does my local supplier, fuel boat Auriga. 

 

I am pretty sure there will be others around the system.

 

Perhaps we should start a seperate thread on FAME free fuel suppliers and pin it?

The Boatyard (and their fuel boat) on the K&A and all or most of the ABC bases (at at price). I have read that a recent change in the rules makes it very difficult for anybody to now guarantee a supply of Fame Free.

 

.............Dave

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5 minutes ago, dmr said:

The Boatyard (and their fuel boat) on the K&A and all or most of the ABC bases (at at price). I have read that a recent change in the rules makes it very difficult for anybody to now guarantee a supply of Fame Free.

 

.............Dave

 

Looks like you are right, suppliers cannot guarantee FAME free according to this article.

 

https://www.cpsfuels.co.uk/news/fame-in-gas-oil-what-this-means-to-gas-oil-users

 

I wonder how operators of sites with a large number of standby generators will manage.

 

I know of several sites where the oil storage capacity is over a million litres yet the fuel turnover per year is only a few thousand litres. For these sites fuel degradation will become a major problem unless they reduce their storage capacity, which of course reduces the time the site can run off grid for.

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8 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Looks like you are right, suppliers cannot guarantee FAME free according to this article.

 

https://www.cpsfuels.co.uk/news/fame-in-gas-oil-what-this-means-to-gas-oil-users

 

I wonder how operators of sites with a large number of standby generators will manage.

 

I know of several sites where the oil storage capacity is over a million litres yet the fuel turnover per year is only a few thousand litres. For these sites fuel degradation will become a major problem unless they reduce their storage capacity, which of course reduces the time the site can run off grid for.

Yes, I believe it was pressure from the stand-by sector (like hospitals and Banks) that caused Fame Free to be retained. I read that there was a quota for Fame Free so as long as the stand by users did not use up the quota some was left over for us. I don't know how the stand by users will now cope with this, maybe they still get Fame Free or maybe they can sell their "stale" fuel back to the suppliers in exchange for fresh stuff.

 

Assuming this is coming from the EU then this is typical EU behavior......make a new rule then after much much negotiation allow exceptions where it is sensible to do so, and then a little later take that exception away with no further negotiation.

 

............Dave

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27 minutes ago, dmr said:

Yes, I believe it was pressure from the stand-by sector (like hospitals and Banks) that caused Fame Free to be retained. I read that there was a quota for Fame Free so as long as the stand by users did not use up the quota some was left over for us. I don't know how the stand by users will now cope with this, maybe they still get Fame Free or maybe they can sell their "stale" fuel back to the suppliers in exchange for fresh stuff.

 

Assuming this is coming from the EU then this is typical EU behavior......make a new rule then after much much negotiation allow exceptions where it is sensible to do so, and then a little later take that exception away with no further negotiation.

 

............Dave

 

Indeed, I was part of the negotiating team for BT which first raised the issue to the Government. (If BT cannot guarantee a very high level of power resilience then the 999 service is at risk).

 

I expect that you are correct that FAME free will still be available for those who can demonstrate a commercial need for it.

 

Boaters who don't use a thankful of diesel every 6 months will be at increased risk of diesel bug though, unless a biocide is used.

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Going back to the original question for a moment, a few years ago Bruce came out to my neighbour whose engine hadn't been started for 2 years. He made it very clear how much it would cost for the basic treatment and how much it was likely to be for additional filters. In the event the final bill was very close to that figure. There was no doubt that his filters removed all the water and other impurities (something that 3 other fuel polishers had failed to achieve with coarser filters for my own fuel problems). Starting my neighbour's engine was a problem; after we had flattened her 3 batteries he sprayed easy-start into the engine and we started it from one of my domestic batteries. At the time I was 100% satisfied with the service we received.

 

We both bought his fuel additive for a couple of years and were happy, then something happened and he started re-selling Marine 16 under his own label at a 50% mark-up. I emailed him to ask politely why, and instead of answering he simply blocked me. Since then I have purchased my additive elsewhere (also I had my tank steam-cleaned and my neighbour has sold her boat).

 

Clearly things have changed; I have suspicions why but they are not for a public forum.

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6 hours ago, Mike55 said:

That's an understatement. Easy start is terrible stuff and damages engines and makes them harder to start in the future, requiring more easy start, causing more damage, requiring more easy start etc. etc. Easy start is highly volatile which starts the engine, but it also washes the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls thereby increasing wear of the piston rings & cylinders. This reduces the compression ratio of the engine due to leakage past the wear and makes the engine harder to start next time. Easy start is the mark of a cowboy.

A friend destroyed a BMC engine in the manner you describe. It only needed new glow plugs :(

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3 hours ago, dmr said:

The Boatyard (and their fuel boat) on the K&A and all or most of the ABC bases (at at price). I have read that a recent change in the rules makes it very difficult for anybody to now guarantee a supply of Fame Free.

 

.............Dave

I had our fuel polished at The Boat Yard on the K & A last year before we went up the River Seven to Sharpness, the cost was £90 + fuel additive and that was the price they quoted me, very good service.

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On 04/03/2019 at 12:44, little-wren said:

 informed I should take the "minimum requirement" sample to any refueling station from here on in and not to refuel if the diesel was dirtier than the sample.

 

 

Really - I suspect if you turned up at Turners at Wheaton Aston with that sort of idea they'd just stare at you.

 

Do RCR get commission from these recommendations?

 

Quick start is Evil and is the method of last resort.  Given that our very old BMC 1.5 (it has a lot of 0s in the serial number) which was rebuilt in 2006 still starts after 20 seconds of heaters when it has been standing for over 2 months in the middle of winter I can't imagine that you needed it, and if you really did then I'd be looking at getting that fixed rather than getting my tank cleaned and the fuel polish.

 

We use biocide in the tank every so often, change the filters and use a hand pump to check for gunk below the level of the fuel extractor pipe and pump it until we're pulling clear diesel through.

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We once had a neighbour, Mrs Vestas was her name, the typical kind of housewife of years ago and always wore a big turban, pinny and traditional carpet slippers with the big bobble on top. Trouble was she reeked of paraffin, just like an old Valor oil heater that needs its wick trimming. For digestion reasons she dosed herself with liquid paraffin, in very large doses, I reckon she got through over a gallon a week, she sometimes sent me round to Shadforths the chemist for fresh supplies, so I know. Mr Vestas always wore his old WW2 gas mask in their indoors.  Everywhere Mrs Vestas went her pong and a supply of liquid paraffin and a big spoon would go.  In our local shops you always new if she'd been in before you, as apart from the smell the shop keepers could be seen putting the fire extinquishers back on their brackets, they always kept them handy in case Mrs Vestas popped in. She did an awful lot of walking too as she was never allowed on buses and trains because of passengers complaing of the smell and of the risk.  I warned her once about humans self combusting caused by synthetic underclothes being ignited by sparks  of static electricity, but she didn't believe me until I showed her an article in a newspaper about how an American vegitarian bloke had exploded while asleep in bed,  but she said she couldn't give it up, it keeps my tummy settled, she said, oils me joints and gives me extra strength to do the washing and for turning that big heavy handle on the mangle out in the yard which takes it out of me like. We moved away from next door to Mrs Vestases, as a fire precaution, just in case. :mellow:

 

 

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Mr Bizzard is full of S*** and talks a load of B******** but despite these issues he is one of the most entertaining and informed posters on this forum.

I can just remember some of this stuff, my grandparents dosed themselves full of all sorts of medicinal stuff,  medicinal whiskey in particular, probably a whole lot safer than modern drugs,

 

...........Dave (keeping alive the tradition of medicinal drinking)

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On 04/03/2019 at 16:16, Bee said:

That's a lot of money. To anybody else with problems - diy. Go and buy some sort of plastic barrel. pump /syphon all the diesel into it. Somehow get access to the inside of the tank or cut a disc out of the top and clean the inside thoroughly with rags ... refill with clean fuel or take the old crappy stuff somewhere for cleaning/disposal.  As for the big hole in the tank get a plate or disc made to cover the hole. drill and tap threads into the tank, get a nice gasket and bolt it back together. Horrible job but the best way to do it.

That is precisely what I had done when I had a tank of contaminated diesel.  The work was fraction of what fuel polishing would have cost and I then had a large inspection plate plate to make future cleaning easy.

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Happy smiley Bruce has taken advantage of your Naivety, taken you for a sucker and fleeced you. Face it, accept it and learn that there are bastards out there that will do you over in a wink .

 

Based on a lifetime of dealing with firms, follow this.-----

 

You have to be FIRM and determined, demand and get a WRITTEN QUOTATION or walk away. NO EXTRAS!

NEVER take another firm's recommendation especially from RCR.

ALWAYS get more than 2 quotes.

Never do things at a RUSH, sit, consider, seek advice, ask around. Search the internet.

 

Had this been me someone would have a broken arm at least...............................

 

 

Edited by Boater Sam
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8 hours ago, LadyG said:

A classic tale by bizzard, his life, to date,  has been like no other.

Indeed, but as so often, a basis of truth. The dangers of excess liquid paraffin were realised when pathologists doing PMs discovered they couldn’t lift the liver out of the cadaver with gloved hands, it was so slippery with paraffin.

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On 04/03/2019 at 12:48, RLWP said:

Weird first post!

Agree its a bit odd, and should as always been taken with a pinch of salt, however equally may well be as portrayed.

 

I can see no obvious evidence to either prove or disprove if that OP has any professional connection with Tank Busters or their competitors.

 

Either way, the summary appears to be that of good service provide at a reasonably cost, if perhaps with exception of some questionable quotes and invoicing. 

 

Daniel

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18 hours ago, dmr said:

Yes, I believe it was pressure from the stand-by sector (like hospitals and Banks) that caused Fame Free to be retained. I read that there was a quota for Fame Free so as long as the stand by users did not use up the quota some was left over for us. I don't know how the stand by users will now cope with this, maybe they still get Fame Free or maybe they can sell their "stale" fuel back to the suppliers in exchange for fresh stuff.

 

Assuming this is coming from the EU then this is typical EU behavior......make a new rule then after much much negotiation allow exceptions where it is sensible to do so, and then a little later take that exception away with no further negotiation.

 

............Dave

I'm not sure that it is totally fair to blame the EU. There has been a lot of pressure to reduce the world consumption of extracted oil and one option - at one time widely seen as a potential solution - was the development of bio fuels. This, if successful, would have  allowed the world to continue with existing technologies (eg cars). An initial start was to mandate a small proportion of bio fuel. I'm sure that, in the absence of the EU, the UK would have wanted to be at the forefront of such changes. The EU is just the mechanism by which 27 countries have coordinated action like this, all the more needed as fuel supplies are global. However, it was soon discovered that some parts of the world went overboard in growing the necessary bio, destroying rain forests along the way and so there is now a much more muted approach to this solution to 'peak oil'. I'll bet that bio fuel will continue post-Brexit, at least un til some other technology comes along.

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