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Can anyone help me please?

 

I have to attend a meeting tomorrow and one of the participants has just flagged up that we need to discuss the changes to the BSS regulations, in particular the changes to non-slip surfaces and bubble testers (this is specifically for "managed boats"

 

I would like to read the details for myself to prepare for the meeting but the BSS website search facility provides me with a long list of articles for each of these subjects but when I click on it the page has been moved (sigh)

 

Does anyone have some familiarity with the site to guide me to the information I need to swat up on please?

 

Another question, (sorry)  I understand that having a bubble tester on a boat means a BSS examiner who is not Gas Safe registered can do the test BUT we also require a Landlords Gas Safety Certificate annually for the boat. My feeling is that as we need to get a Gas Safe assessor in annually having a bubble tester is fairly irrelevant for our circumstances - or have I got that bit wrong?

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I think everything you need is covered here:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/292919/Hire-Boat-ECP-Part-10-24-3-17-FINAL-1-Apr.pdf

 

As for the bubble tester question, as it’s not mentioned in that pdf above I think your feeling is correct. A GSR inspector won’t care if one is fitted or not. However, it’s a good thing to have to add to your daily check list. 

Edited by WotEver

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Unless of course that document has been superseded? But it’s the only one I’m aware of. 

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17 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The most important thing from April is the mandatory CO detectors......at last

Can't get my head round why people wouldn't have them.

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34 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I think everything you need is covered here:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/292919/Hire-Boat-ECP-Part-10-24-3-17-FINAL-1-Apr.pdf

 

As for the bubble tester question, as it’s not mentioned in that pdf above I think your feeling is correct. A GSR inspector won’t care if one is fitted or not. However, it’s a good thing to have to add to your daily check list. 

Thanks for that

 

if anyone is aware of anything that supercedes it please shout up but I will have a good read

 

Of course it has already thrown me off on a tangent worrying about demarkation of the arc of the tiller. I think I need to give our tame surveyor a call on this one.

 

I was actually given the "heads-up" on the possibility of us having to extend the carborundum grit along a short section of wooden gunwale by our BSS inspector last time, I think he knew something might be changing. In fact what changed was the wood on the gunwales which was replaced with some nice new iroko and so I must address the job of getting some grit on them.

 

CO detectors, we have two in Python's tiny cabin, both of the correct type, both tested regularly, one high up on the wall in plain sight, the other in plain sight tucked under the gunwale (withing about 2 feet of where the pillow would be is someone slept on board. We also have a notice prohibiting the pilot light being lit on the Morco if someone is sleeping in there. Belt and braces.

20 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Can't get my head round why people wouldn't have them.

Agreed

 

It really does seem crazy

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I think all the comments above have been for private boats, this is shared ownership/ hire and there were changes made like tiller arke and non slip if I remember correctly . But not something that I have really taken an interest in.

 

 

 I think this is what you want https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination-and-certification/non-private-boats/

Edited by ditchcrawler

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18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think all the comments above have been for private boats, this is shared ownership/ hire and there were changes made like tiller arke and non slip if I remember correctly . But not something that I have really taken an interest in.

 

 

 I think this is what you want https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination-and-certification/non-private-boats/

If you follow that link through it appears to end up at the same link I gave in post #2. I can’t see anything else?  The BSS site is a mess. 

There are several references to the 2002 standards but I can’t find a link to them anywhere. 

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Thank you all

 

I will wade through it all, it does as you say seem to be a mess with links that are dead and loads of references to things that changed a number of years ago.

 

On the basis that we do not actually need to get a new BSS certificate yet it might seem a bit OTT but if the rules have changed it is best practice to ensure your boat complies with the current rules even though you do not need a new certificate. The biggest problem is often down to interpretation.

 

Last year I got embroiled in a discussion among some of the other boat managers because the checklist that all the trip boats use states that the electrical isolator must be on the deck within close reach of the helm. It was suggested we needed to move Python's isolator to comply - even though all the trip boats have a cruiser stern and Python has an engine room. I was not getting anywhere until I talked to the actualy surveyor who pointed out that the interpretation is based around the risk. By moving Python's isolator to any place outside of the cabin it required extending the length of unprotected cable by several feet. Of course a surveyors point of view is that the bigger risk is having the unprotected cable and so we amended the checklist!

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1 hour ago, cheshire~rose said:

Thank you all

 

I will wade through it all, it does as you say seem to be a mess with links that are dead and loads of references to things that changed a number of years ago.

 

On the basis that we do not actually need to get a new BSS certificate yet it might seem a bit OTT but if the rules have changed it is best practice to ensure your boat complies with the current rules even though you do not need a new certificate. The biggest problem is often down to interpretation.

 

Last year I got embroiled in a discussion among some of the other boat managers because the checklist that all the trip boats use states that the electrical isolator must be on the deck within close reach of the helm. It was suggested we needed to move Python's isolator to comply - even though all the trip boats have a cruiser stern and Python has an engine room. I was not getting anywhere until I talked to the actualy surveyor who pointed out that the interpretation is based around the risk. By moving Python's isolator to any place outside of the cabin it required extending the length of unprotected cable by several feet. Of course a surveyors point of view is that the bigger risk is having the unprotected cable and so we amended the checklist!

You could always just drop the BSS guys a  line

 

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3 hours ago, Rickent said:

Can't get my head round why people wouldn't have them.

Wearing a seat belt in a car had to be made mandatory as people would not wear them.

Perhaps it there is a similar scenario with CO detectors.

Many people are simply unaware of the reasons why a CO detector might be a good idea.

 

By the way - be careful if buying a CO detector. I bought some CO detectors of the Fire Angel type with a liquid crystal display off Amazon and when they arrived the packaging indicated unsuitable for boats despite the advert specifically saying the product was suitable. (I received a refund).

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Well yesterday this all got even more interesting.

 

To start off with I thought we had safely put all the concerns to bed when we assertained that all the boats in question are categorised as being "non-private boats" as opposed to"Hire boats" so none of the changes regarding arc of the tiller etc are for us to worry about (yet)

 

However, one of our team spotted a mention on the BSS website that it was "Strongly Recommended" that ALL boats are fitted with a bubble tester on their gas system. Now a recomendation is just that, we are not forced to do it BUT if it is highly recommended by BSS then one has the feeling that there is good reason for it and if it would help make any of the fleet safer then why wouldn't we fit one? After all it would give the volunteers the opportunity to test for gas leaks themselves at regular intervals rather than awaiting a 12 month gas safety certificate being produced.....

 

I had reason to speak to our surveyor about another matter yesterday and felt I wanted to run the bubble tester thing past him before we dash out and invest in several of the things.

He said he wanted to give me a strong recommendation on this - write to the BSS office and tell them to remove their strong recommendation -eh? what?

 

He pointed out that if a bubble tester is fitted then it must be fitted according to the manufactures instructions. He said that st present the higest rated tester is made by Alde and is rated at 20kw. He knows Python and her equipment intimately (he does our Gas Safety cert annually) He said working from memory our Morco water heater was a little in excess of 11kw. We also have a 4 burner gas hob, a grill and an oven. He suggested I get the model numbers of the other appliances and check the rating of each then add them together to get the total for the boat. He assured me that it was highly unlikely that with the appliances we have there is any way we can be under 20kw and so if we fitted a bubble tester it would be outside of the manufacturers recommendations and it could cause us problems with the efficient running of our appliances.

 

While I know that will not apply to a lot of boats I do wonder how many people actually check the total rating of their combined appliances to ensure a bubble tester is suitable for their boat. Perhaps they do but there is no mention of this on the BSS website. If they are issuing a strong recommendation to do this and yet there is no product on the market suitable for some boats to comply why?

 

 

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Hi

 

For the record, the maximum permitted throughput for an Alde bubble tester is 12kw, not 20kw; this is what Alde themselves state. 

 

The device should not be installed at all if there is more than 12kw of appliances aboard unless the device is correctly positioned in a bypass set up. 

 

 

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A bubble tester can be fitted with a bypass valve that allows a larger flow rate to the appliances than the tester is rated for. Close this when carrying out the bubble test. This is mentioned on the BSS page for gas on hire, passenger and business boats.

 

Quote

This is because the bubble tester must be correctly located and oriented, and for large volume LPG systems, the engineer may need to install a bypass arrangement to allow gas to flow past the bubble tester when it is not being used.

Jen

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22 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

If they are issuing a strong recommendation to do this and yet there is no product on the market suitable for some boats to comply why?

The bubble tester enables BSS Examiners not have to be Gas Safe registered when a gas system  soundness test is conducted. 

 Their many limitations are therefore conveniently ignored.

N

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5 minutes ago, keelingtom said:

Hi

 

For the record, the maximum permitted throughput for an Alde bubble tester is 12kw, not 20kw; this is what Alde themselves state. 

 

The device should not be installed at all if there is more than 12kw of appliances aboard unless the device is correctly positioned in a bypass set up. 

 

 

Interestingly they also say to test for between 1 and 8 minutes, a long time to press the button down 

Capture.JPG

Capture.JPG

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Uncomfortable as it may be to some NarrowboatWorld have a decent article on this subject

http://narrowboatworld.com/10753-do-i-need-a-bubble-tester

 

Personally I'm not a fan of the bubble tester I much prefer to have a full pressure test carried out together with periodic checks, using a gas detector, at all of the connections and pipes. 

 

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On 04/03/2019 at 09:06, matty40s said:

The most important thing from April is the mandatory CO detectors......at last

is this all boats or only hire boats

 

Lutine needs a BSS, everything that passed last time will still pass, but I'll be caught out on any changes

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3 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

is this all boats or only hire boats

 

Lutine needs a BSS, everything that passed last time will still pass, but I'll be caught out on any changes

ALL  boats that require a BSSC.

 

(Amendments to the previous BSSC come in in April 2019)

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/search/?q=2019+changes

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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On 06/03/2019 at 16:54, cheshire~rose said:

Well yesterday this all got even more interesting.

 

To start off with I thought we had safely put all the concerns to bed when we assertained that all the boats in question are categorised as being "non-private boats" as opposed to"Hire boats" so none of the changes regarding arc of the tiller etc are for us to worry about (yet)

 

However, one of our team spotted a mention on the BSS website that it was "Strongly Recommended" that ALL boats are fitted with a bubble tester on their gas system. Now a recomendation is just that, we are not forced to do it BUT if it is highly recommended by BSS then one has the feeling that there is good reason for it and if it would help make any of the fleet safer then why wouldn't we fit one? After all it would give the volunteers the opportunity to test for gas leaks themselves at regular intervals rather than awaiting a 12 month gas safety certificate being produced.....

 

I had reason to speak to our surveyor about another matter yesterday and felt I wanted to run the bubble tester thing past him before we dash out and invest in several of the things.

He said he wanted to give me a strong recommendation on this - write to the BSS office and tell them to remove their strong recommendation -eh? what?

 

He pointed out that if a bubble tester is fitted then it must be fitted according to the manufactures instructions. He said that st present the higest rated tester is made by Alde and is rated at 20kw. He knows Python and her equipment intimately (he does our Gas Safety cert annually) He said working from memory our Morco water heater was a little in excess of 11kw. We also have a 4 burner gas hob, a grill and an oven. He suggested I get the model numbers of the other appliances and check the rating of each then add them together to get the total for the boat. He assured me that it was highly unlikely that with the appliances we have there is any way we can be under 20kw and so if we fitted a bubble tester it would be outside of the manufacturers recommendations and it could cause us problems with the efficient running of our appliances.

 

While I know that will not apply to a lot of boats I do wonder how many people actually check the total rating of their combined appliances to ensure a bubble tester is suitable for their boat. Perhaps they do but there is no mention of this on the BSS website. If they are issuing a strong recommendation to do this and yet there is no product on the market suitable for some boats to comply why?

 

 

I have 2 bubble testers to accommodate my 4 gas appliances.

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On 04/03/2019 at 09:25, Rickent said:

Can't get my head round why people wouldn't have them.

We as a species are meant to be inteligent but in reality are a s thick as the proverbial dung. People drive cars without seatbelts. people drive cars whilst using a moblie telefone, people smoke cigarettes, people take drugs etc etc etc etc etc The list is endless on what people do and need protecting from themselves which is were much legislation comes from.

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On 04/03/2019 at 09:06, matty40s said:

The most important thing from April is the mandatory CO detectors......at last

And according to the BSS office, that applies to all boats even if they don't need a retest and a new certificate for years.

 

So if you don't have any, get some before the end of March, or you are potentially giving insurance companies a get out clause in the event of a claim.  They could insist that you are not BSS compliant even though you may have a certificate valid until 2023!

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

And according to the BSS office, that applies to all boats even if they don't need a retest and a new certificate for years.

 

So if you don't have any, get some before the end of March, or you are potentially giving insurance companies a get out clause in the event of a claim.  They could insist that you are not BSS compliant even though you may have a certificate valid until 2023!

Dont you have a duty to keep your boat compliant  with the BSS at all times 

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Dont you have a duty to keep your boat compliant  with the BSS at all times 

Yes, and the absence of a CO alarm is trivial proof you were not in case of a claim.

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