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48 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Many folk believe that southerners consider everything north of Watford Gap to be ‘Up North’. They don’t. It’s everything north of Watford!

Agreed! I don't know where the 'Watford Gap' thing came from. It makes no sense as any kind of joke but the road sign at the start of the M1 in London does. The M1 goes to Watford and everything else is The North!

North of Watford.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Agreed! I don't know where the 'Watford Gap' thing came from. It makes no sense as any kind of joke but the road sign at the start of the M1 in London does. The M1 goes to Watford and everything else is The North!

North of Watford.jpg

Bloomin' eck. Sorry for trying to make a joke. I should have realised the nit pickers are on the case!?

 

Howard

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Many folk believe that southerners consider everything north of Watford Gap to be ‘Up North’. They don’t. It’s everything north of Watford!

But if by Watford you mean the small town of Watford which is near the gap, it makes almost no difference.

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

But if by Watford you mean the small town of Watford which is near the gap, it makes almost no difference.

Here are excerpts from The Spectator, and Wikipedia which may be of help (my Red Bold):-

 

In a shallow dip between two unremarkable Northamptonshire hills you will find a road, a motorway, a railway and a canal jostling for position. It is neither a place of natural beauty nor a spectacle of human ingenuity. Yet it has been the subject of books, art exhibitions, pop songs and even a (mini) musical.

This is Watford Gap, a three-mile break in the limestone ridge that runs from the Cotswolds to Lincolnshire. Perched between Daventry and Rugby, it subtly marks the watershed of the Nene and Avon to the east and west. However understated the depression geographically, it’s of high status culturally. For this is the gateway between the South and All Things North: the Midlands, northern England and Scotland.

 

Wikipedia.....

It is known nationally for its proximity to the Watford Gap motorway service station. The phrase "North of the Watford Gap" is used light-heartedly ........ to describe areas of Great Britain that are north of London. It is also used in a generic/pseudo-sociological sense to distinguish 'the South' from 'Northern' England (including the English Midlands), or at least where Southern England is thought to 'end'. The phrase may refer to the village being traditionally an important waypoint on the old east-west and north-south coaching routes. This was the point where the main north-south road, rail and canal routes came together at a gap in the hills known as Watford Gap. Watford gives its name to the Watford Locks on the Grand Union Canal.[3] Christadelphians have been using the village hall for meetings since the 2000s

 

So there!  However, for me anywhere south of Doncaster is suspect. I have always been against HS2  apart from one thing. It will be the quickest way back to the North and civilisation.

 

Howard:cheers:

Edited by howardang
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Yes, those two sources might well say ‘Watford Gap’ is the border but speaking as a Southerner I can assure you that they’re wrong. Of course, things might have changed in the 44 years I’ve been in The Midlands, but Southerners certainly used to say “Anything north of Watford” when I lived down there. 

Just as Lysander confirmed :)

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18 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Coming from neither North nor South of Watford, the Watford Gap thing always irks me. Sorry to nitpick...

Me too :)

 

It’s even more irritating that many sources now quote Watford Gap and then try to justify the reasoning - such as that Wikipedia entry. 

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1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

You are all clearly wrong about Watford or Watford Gap as this sign shows that even Barnsley is in the South now ?

picture2_6_orig.png

Nono. Barnsley is still safely in the North but anything south of it is open to question. Perhaps everything between Watford (Herts) and Barnsley is The Midlands?

 

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When we moved back to Cornwall in 1991 (having left when I was 13) I was bale to explore some of the westerly parts which were as remote in my childhood as anywhere more than five miles from where I grew up. It was with some surprise to encounter a road sign at a roundabout onto the A30 near Redruth that pointed to North Country. My initial reaction was not dissimilar to some of those above (looking real North and South signs). Later surprise was to discover that it is the name of a nearby village - sign can be seen on Google Street View at https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.2439576,-5.2347638,3a,75y,10.11h,87.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRF8zk3R_FboumrbFSKzgFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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I think the thing about watord gap began when the M 1 finished just past the services at Crick. No doubt when the southerners got to the end of the motorway they turned round and went back. For some years the Blue Boar services was the place for the local youths to go on Saturday nights where there was late night food. Sometimes there was even a good fight as well. Anything for entertainment when you live in the sticks.

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3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Yes, those two sources might well say ‘Watford Gap’ is the border but speaking as a Southerner I can assure you that they’re wrong. Of course, things might have changed in the 44 years I’ve been in The Midlands, but Southerners certainly used to say “Anything north of Watford” when I lived down there. 

Just as Lysander confirmed :)

 

 

Same here. As a child I remember my parents regularly speaking about the north of England being anywhere north of Watford. 

 

Then the built the M1 and is there not a service station called Watford Gap? From the building of this service station, Watford Gap dislodged Watford in the southerner's mind as gateway to the narth. 

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Then the built the M1 and is there not a service station called Watford Gap? From the building of this service station, Watford Gap dislodged Watford in the southerner's mind as gateway to the narth. 

I’m unsure if it’s dislodged it in a Southerner’s mind, but it certainly appears to have done so elsewhere in the country. 

(When they quote it)

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13 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Same here. As a child I remember my parents regularly speaking about the north of England being anywhere north of Watford. 

 

Then the built the M1 and is there not a service station called Watford Gap? From the building of this service station, Watford Gap dislodged Watford in the southerner's mind as gateway to the narth. 

 

The services are the Blue Boar services, pretty much adjacent to the Watford Locks.

 

I saw a programme about the building and early days of the M1 motorway. Apparently most 60's pop groups used to stop at the Blue Boar for refreshments when returning to London from gigs in the Midlands and North and this got reported in the New Musical Express.

 

Jimmy Hendrix read the NME in the States and insisted his manager book him a gig at the Blue Boar for his first UK tour. 

 

He was very disappointed to find out it was a roadside 'diner' and not a 'hip' club.

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29 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The services are the Blue Boar services, pretty much adjacent to the Watford Locks.

 

I think not!

 

th?id=OIP.RM_-R172FcPgRkwFcqW4UAAAAA%26p

 

A brief goggle reveal the service station when first built was run by Blue Boar Services Ltd hence the name, but later they lost the contract to Roadkill Ltd, and it changed to Watford Gap Services. Or something like that...

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think not!

 

th?id=OIP.RM_-R172FcPgRkwFcqW4UAAAAA%26p

 

A brief goggle reveal the service station when first built was run by Blue Boar Services Ltd hence the name, but later they lost the contract to Roadkill Ltd, and it changed to Watford Gap Services. Or something like that...

 

Pity, Blue Boar sounds much more interesting than Watford Gap. ?

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

A brief goggle reveal the service station when first built was run by Blue Boar Services Ltd hence the name, but later they lost the contract to Roadkill Ltd, and it changed to Watford Gap Services. Or something like that...

I'm told they also served a steak dinner with a glass of sherry when it first opened - I guess those days have gone too!

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11 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I'm told they also served a steak dinner with a glass of sherry when it first opened - I guess those days have gone too!

 

And quite right too!

 

What is it they used to say...? Ah yes...

 

"Don't drink and drive, you might spill it."

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As far as I am concerned you only have to walk up country via the Caledonion Road or York Way in the "N" London postcodes  a few yards to realise where the North starts.  Watford is well ooop there.

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3 hours ago, mark99 said:

As far as I am concerned you only have to walk up country via the Caledonion Road or York Way in the "N" London postcodes  a few yards to realise where the North starts.  Watford is well ooop there.

 

Yeah well, you lives sarf of the river... innit. I spect u regard Westminster as in the frozen north too! 

 

 

 

 

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