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Narrowest point between London and Manchester


kayles27

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20 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Close, but not quite.  The ketchup bottle is to protect the GPS dongle from the rain. Output below (that photo taken at point E). The main function of the mast was to hold the go-pro camera for the timelapse video. The masthead light was used the next day, when we cast off at 0430 to catch the tide. I wonder if you can guess what is hanging off the quarter in this photo ...

Yes a nice saying, Howard. I think the sugar transfer was rather later on, approaching Wisbech.

dscf11981.jpg

boston-wisbech-chart1.jpg

 

Echo sounder transducer?

 

Howard

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

p1120270.jpg

 

Covered in Boater Sam's post I believe. 

Millpond conditions but still braver than me. 

I'm hoping for similar conditions for my trot round the coast from Devon to Essex in a couple of weeks but I doubt I'll be that lucky for the whole journey. 

Fortunately I will have a proper boat under me. 

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2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

This may seem a bit predatic, but can we please drop the current myth that all Narrow Boats are between 6ft 10ins and 7ft wide, and that anything over 7ft cannot get through the locks. There are hundreds of older boats which are over 7ft wide, including our old boat our boat, which was half an inch over 7ft, and we managed to get around the system without any difficulty, including parts of the BCN and the Cheshire locks, both of which are allegedly very tight.

7 foot is, and always was, a generalisation. Some boats and some canals were wider, but crucially some were narrower too. The locks up to Trench were mist most obvious at only 6 foot 2 inches, and whilst none survive that are that narrow, some, such as the Ellesmere Canal, were always less generous than others. 

 

7 foot is a useful rule of thumb, I knew someone who managed to take a 7 foot 6 beam cruiser over much of the narrow system, but he always wanted to do a lock for the first time by going up. I think the whole of the T&M and the four counties ring were passable, along with much of the BCN, and probably others if he'd had the nerve to try. He never did the southern Staffs and Worcs as he couldn't go from the lower end. 

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12 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hmm, that must've been quite a challenge! 

Indeed! IIRC (and this is a vague memory of someone I knew, but not that well, a long time ago) his boat was in Cheshire and he could do the T&M up to Harecastle and the Shroppie up to Autherly. By going through the L&L (The Rochdale wasn't open then) he could get to the other end of the T&M and get to Harecastle and up the S&W to Autherly, and also into the BCN at Fazeley and Aldersley. I don't know whether he tried Atherstone.

 

From my own experience - when I took Odana through Titford Factory Locks it was obvious they were VERY wide - maybe 8 feet? Odana could move far enough off centre to miss the rubbing board on the top gates. 

 

Ripple was notionally 6 foot 10, an ex-Clifton hire boat, that said, it's obvious having been through some of the same locks in Lutine that Lutine is a couple of inches narrower than Ripple, and that Juno, also notionally 6 foot ten, is a couple of inches wider than Lutine (Juno sticks going though one gate at Bradford, Lutine doesn't) 

 

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43 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

7 foot is, and always was, a generalisation. Some boats and some canals were wider, but crucially some were narrower too. The locks up to Trench were mist most obvious at only 6 foot 2 inches, and whilst none survive that are that narrow, some, such as the Ellesmere Canal, were always less generous than others. 

 

7 foot is a useful rule of thumb, I knew someone who managed to take a 7 foot 6 beam cruiser over much of the narrow system, but he always wanted to do a lock for the first time by going up. I think the whole of the T&M and the four counties ring were passable, along with much of the BCN, and probably others if he'd had the nerve to try. He never did the southern Staffs and Worcs as he couldn't go from the lower end. 

I have only ever got stuck in two locks, on was Somerton Deep on the Southern Oxford, but that was because of debris on the gate cill not allowing the bottom gate to open fully, which was resolved when a lengthman was cantacted and cleared it. The other was back in the 1960's when Pisces got stuck in a lock on the Southern Stratford, It was recently after the canal had been re-opened by the National Trust, and some of the lock walls had moved inwards because of land pressure when the canal was dry. Despite strenouos efforts assisited by the Lock Keeper's Land Rover and a group of walkers we never managed to get through and had to reverse back about five locks to turn round. About ten years ago we nearly got hung up in one of the Camp Hill locks because of some loose wall bricks whch had moved outwards, a quick bash with a pole encouraged them back into place.

 

So the conclusion is, as you suggest that 7ft is a rule of thumb, but most of the system will cope with boats somewhat wider.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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  • I have read that CRT have "fixed" Napton but the Llangollen, South Stratford and the HNC all have tight locks. I reckon we are 6 foot 11-1/2  at the back and have been stuck in Hurlston, have zero clearance on the South Stratford lock and believe we can't do the HNC though would love to try.

 

.................Dave

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38 minutes ago, dmr said:
  • I have read that CRT have "fixed" Napton but the Llangollen, South Stratford and the HNC all have tight locks. I reckon we are 6 foot 11-1/2  at the back and have been stuck in Hurlston, have zero clearance on the South Stratford lock and believe we can't do the HNC though would love to try.

 

.................Dave

We contemplated the Llangollen a few years ago and sat below the first lock for a long time waiting for a lull in traffic so that we could gingerly test it. After a couple of hours the procession of boats continued, and another boater whose boat was about the same width as ours walked past and told us that he had got stuck in the lock only a few days previously, so we gave up waiting and moved on.

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On 05/03/2019 at 12:06, dmr said:
  • I have read that CRT have "fixed" Napton but the Llangollen, South Stratford and the HNC all have tight locks. I reckon we are 6 foot 11-1/2  at the back and have been stuck in Hurlston, have zero clearance on the South Stratford lock and believe we can't do the HNC though would love to try.

 

.................Dave

In many cases, but not always, such wider boats are also deeper drafted which adds to the 'soft' limitations.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello

 
I am starting to explore my next boat and a riverboat is looking favourite - we did a few days in Lincoln last year on a 50ft and have a week in Wales in a 60ft in August.
 
Your website has been invaluable, as has this thread but I am still a bit lost on the answer ? - we live in Yorkshire so will be having it in York for weekend use and longer summer trips, but we really want to explore. Ideally I’d like a wide barge but looking at the canal maps I can’t see how to connect North and South as the rivers near Stoke and Birmingham are listed as “narrower”, or it’s by sea which makes menervous!
 
Can you tell me if there is a maximum a widget you use to explore “most” of the UK?
 
Thank you.
Mark
 
Sent from my iPhone
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1 minute ago, Markizon said:

Hello

 
I am starting to explore my next boat and a riverboat is looking favourite - we did a few days in Lincoln last year on a 50ft and have a week in Wales in a 60ft in August.
 
Your website has been invaluable, as has this thread but I am still a bit lost on the answer ? - we live in Yorkshire so will be having it in York for weekend use and longer summer trips, but we really want to explore. Ideally I’d like a wide barge but looking at the canal maps I can’t see how to connect North and South as the rivers near Stoke and Birmingham are listed as “narrower”, or it’s by sea which makes menervous!
 
Can you tell me if there is a maximum a widget you use to explore “most” of the UK?
 
Thank you.
Mark
 
Sent from my iPhone

7 foot, or maybe 6'10"

 

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30 minutes ago, Markizon said:

Hello

 
I am starting to explore my next boat and a riverboat is looking favourite - we did a few days in Lincoln last year on a 50ft and have a week in Wales in a 60ft in August.
 
Your website has been invaluable, as has this thread but I am still a bit lost on the answer ? - we live in Yorkshire so will be having it in York for weekend use and longer summer trips, but we really want to explore. Ideally I’d like a wide barge but looking at the canal maps I can’t see how to connect North and South as the rivers near Stoke and Birmingham are listed as “narrower”, or it’s by sea which makes menervous!
 
Can you tell me if there is a maximum a widget you use to explore “most” of the UK?
 
Thank you.
Mark
 
Sent from my iPhone

And they are not rivers, they are canals so have limited depth (say 2ft 6in to be sure) and limited air draft, especially under arched bridges. As SG says assume the maximum width of 6ft 10 inches

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44 minutes ago, Markizon said:

Hello

 
I am starting to explore my next boat and a riverboat is looking favourite - we did a few days in Lincoln last year on a 50ft and have a week in Wales in a 60ft in August.
 
Your website has been invaluable, as has this thread but I am still a bit lost on the answer ? - we live in Yorkshire so will be having it in York for weekend use and longer summer trips, but we really want to explore. Ideally I’d like a wide barge but looking at the canal maps I can’t see how to connect North and South as the rivers near Stoke and Birmingham are listed as “narrower”, or it’s by sea which makes menervous!
 
Can you tell me if there is a maximum a widget you use to explore “most” of the UK?
 
Thank you.
Mark
 
Sent from my iPhone

There are only two way to connect North and South as shown in waterways maps which delineate between wide or broad beam canals and narrow canals. They are by sea,which you don't fancy, and the M1, which is expensive. Whereabouts would you be mooring your boat in Yorkshire?  You could spend a few years exploring say the north and then move (by road) and explore the other half. Alternatively, as others have suggested to explore all waterways 6ft10inches to 7ft beam is the maximum. 

 

For planning purposes Canalplan AC is a useful widget.  https://canalplan.org.uk/

 

 

Howard

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9 foot will fit through Dutton Stop Lock - I guess a wider boat would fit through the tunnel but not much point! One of Magpie the Elder's friends used to regularly go through, the summer holiday in the fifties was out from Haskayne, down Runcorn locks, along the Weaver, up the lift and back through the tunnel.

 

IIRC the curious width of the tunnels led to a dispute as the T&M company had hoped Mersey flats would reach Middlewich - they wouldn't fit through the tunnels and the T&M claimed the Bridgwater had understated the beam, whilst the Bridgwater claimed the T&M had misunderstood the dimension given. Whatever, transhipment had to take place on the Bridgwater rather than on the T&M, to the profit of the former 

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On 07/04/2019 at 16:32, howardang said:

There are only two way to connect North and South as shown in waterways maps which delineate between wide or broad beam canals and narrow canals. They are by sea,which you don't fancy, and the M1, which is expensive. Whereabouts would you be mooring your boat in Yorkshire?  You could spend a few years exploring say the north and then move (by road) and explore the other half. Alternatively, as others have suggested to explore all waterways 6ft10inches to 7ft beam is the maximum. 

 

For planning purposes Canalplan AC is a useful widget.  https://canalplan.org.uk/

 

 

Howard

Only a few?

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54 minutes ago, howardang said:

South of Watford Gap? Is there such a place? Methinks, there be dragons!

 

Howard

Many folk believe that southerners consider everything north of Watford Gap to be ‘Up North’. They don’t. It’s everything north of Watford!

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