Narrowest point between London and Manchester

[kayles27]

Hi, i'm hoping someone can help me please - I understand that navigating the system on a wide beam is relatively easy in and around london and in the north west but I would very much like to be able to travel between the two. Does anyone have any info or could possibly point me in the right direction to find out what the narrowest point would be between london and manchester, so I can determine whether I can even consider anything wider than a narrowboat? I have tried to look on the waterways world website but I couldn't quite make sense of it? 

 

Any help would be appreciated - thanks in advance!

 

[Boater Sam]

Well its fairly obvious on the map, A B & C  are complete no go over 7 foot wide and the other block is called Birmingham, all the BCN.

 

You cannot get anything over 7 feet wide from London any further north than Brum. Except on a truck.

 

Doing a river Nene into the Wash then into Witham and Trent is only for the brave or foolish.

[magpie patrick]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Well its fairly obvious on the map, A B & C  are complete no go over 7 foot wide and the other block is called Birmingham, all the BCN.

 

You cannot get anything over 7 feet wide from London any further north than Brum. Except on a truck.

 

Doing a river Nene into the Wash then into Witham and Trent is only for the brave or foolish.

Wot he said plus The River Nene option won't work as the Northampton branch of the GU is narrow 

 

You can go sea to sea in a wide beam in the north and the south, but you can't go between the north and south except in a narrow boat or by going round the coast - Thames to the Wash via the Anglian coast, or Severn to the Mersey via the Welsh coast. 

[frangar]

I’m not sure moving round london in a widebeam can be called easy....just because it fits through a lock doesn’t mean it’s suitable for the waterway concerned. 

[Tony Brooks]

I would suggest the shorts "overland route" for a wide beam boat will be from the bottom of Watford locks (not Watford near London) and the bottom of Foxton locks on the Leicester arm of the GU

[Movin' on]

Thankfully - you cant!!

 

What Frangar said...……………...

 

Just accept that their are constraints, buy the right boat and enjoy the system as a whole, you will get on better with the task of getting about and you will engage with the community to the full (and they with you ) and get far more out of the experience. 

[Rob-M]

Not just the width to consider as when you get up north you need to think about maximum length as well.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 hours ago, kayles27 said:

I have tried to look on the waterways world website but I couldn't quite make sense of it? 

Using the map you posted, see if you can find a South to North route without going onto any of the 'thin, light blue lines'.

If you can, you can do it, if you can't than you cannot do it.

[Tony Brooks]

I read it as the OP considering the shortest journey by lorry between the two systems but has yet to grasp the distance by truck in the UK makes only a marginal difference in cost.

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I read it as the OP considering the shortest journey by lorry between the two systems but has yet to grasp the distance by truck in the UK makes only a marginal difference in cost.

Hmmm - not sure I agree with your interpretation :

 

14 hours ago, kayles27 said:

I understand that navigating the system on a wide beam is relatively easy in and around london and in the north west but I would very much like to be able to travel between the two. Does anyone have any info or could possibly point me in the right direction to find out what the narrowest point would be between london and manchester, so I can determine whether I can even consider anything wider than a narrowboat?

Narrowest point, not shortest distance ?

[magictime]

I think what the OP probably hadn't realised is that when people talk about 'narrow canals', and when that map shows 'narrow canals', that means canals with locks designed to accommodate boats of a particular width - the width of a standard narrowboat (6'10" - 7'). It's not just that some canals are narrower than others, and so some of the thin blue lines on the map might be navigable in a boat of 10' beam but not 12'6", say, which to be fair is not entirely clear just from looking at the map.

 

OP, for what it's worth, we live on a 'go anywhere' narrowboat of 6'10" beam and 55' length and wouldn't have it any other way. It depends on your own needs of course, but we as a couple have been surprised by how adequate we find the space aboard after 20-odd years of living in houses; certainly the lack of space compared to a longer or wider boat seems no sacrifice to us in order to enjoy the freedom of the system.

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Hmmm - not sure I agree with your interpretation :

 

Do you disagree that a significant part of the total cost of shifting a boat by road is craning it out and craning it back in again (two lots of crane hire, wherever they are)? 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Do you disagree that a significant part of the total cost of shifting a boat by road is craning it out and craning it back in again (two lots of crane hire, wherever they are)? 

Completely agree - but that was not the question the OP asked.

He asked about the narrowest point (not the shortest distance) so he could decide on buying a NB or a WB.

 

He has not been back since and has definitely NOT asked about the cost of road transport.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Machpoint005]

The OP actually said:

 

16 hours ago, kayles27 said:

Hi, i'm hoping someone can help me please

and that's what subsequent posters were trying to do.

 

We all know that the first stage in answering a question is to define it properly.

 

[kayles27]

16 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Well its fairly obvious on the map, A B & C  are complete no go over 7 foot wide and the other block is called Birmingham, all the BCN.

 

You cannot get anything over 7 feet wide from London any further north than Brum. Except on a truck.

 

Doing a river Nene into the Wash then into Witham and Trent is only for the brave or foolish.

Thanks for the advice - definitely no thoughts to stray outside of the canal network! Wasn't sure if there was a way through avoiding points ABC on the map (that exceeds 7 foot), appreciate your input thanks

13 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Wot he said plus The River Nene option won't work as the Northampton branch of the GU is narrow 

 

You can go sea to sea in a wide beam in the north and the south, but you can't go between the north and south except in a narrow boat or by going round the coast - Thames to the Wash via the Anglian coast, or Severn to the Mersey via the Welsh coast. 

Thanks for the advice

11 hours ago, Halsey said:

Thankfully - you cant!!

 

What Frangar said...……………...

 

Just accept that their are constraints, buy the right boat and enjoy the system as a whole, you will get on better with the task of getting about and you will engage with the community to the full (and they with you ) and get far more out of the experience. 

Thank you, the advice is much appreciated

[kayles27]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

I think what the OP probably hadn't realised is that when people talk about 'narrow canals', and when that map shows 'narrow canals', that means canals with locks designed to accommodate boats of a particular width - the width of a standard narrowboat (6'10" - 7'). It's not just that some canals are narrower than others, and so some of the thin blue lines on the map might be navigable in a boat of 10' beam but not 12'6", say, which to be fair is not entirely clear just from looking at the map.

 

OP, for what it's worth, we live on a 'go anywhere' narrowboat of 6'10" beam and 55' length and wouldn't have it any other way. It depends on your own needs of course, but we as a couple have been surprised by how adequate we find the space aboard after 20-odd years of living in houses; certainly the lack of space compared to a longer or wider boat seems no sacrifice to us in order to enjoy the freedom of the system.

That's good to know, thank you! 

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Using the map you posted, see if you can find a South to North route without going onto any of the 'thin, light blue lines'.

If you can, you can do it, if you can't than you cannot do it.

Actually the map is making more sense to me today than yesterday haha - too many hours spent in front of the laptop searching through websites, articles and vlogs etc I think! Thank you

[kayles27]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Hmmm - not sure I agree with your interpretation :

 

Narrowest point, not shortest distance ?

Yes it was narrowest point as opposed to any kind of overland route - thanks to everyone for your comments, bit by bit things are becoming clearer, it's a learning curve but a fun one! Forums like this are incredibly valuable, I appreciate learning from all of your experience, so thanks.

[dmr]

The widebeam rivers and canals are actually split into a number of "isolated" sections though most will join up with varying levels of difficulty or adventure, the North-South gap is the biggest issue requiring cranes and road transport. There are a couple of plans to fix this gap but don't buy a boat based on these, its not going to happen in most of our lifetimes.

 

The Nene/Middle Levels/Ouse system can be got to from the Northern system by crossing the Wash.  The Rivers Severn and Avon and G&S canal connect to the Southern system via the Severn estuary (from Bristol). The Weaver is available via the Manchester Ship Canal, though narrower fat boats can do it via the Anderton lift.

 

............Dave

[carlt]

On 04/03/2019 at 02:00, Boater Sam said:

 

 

Doing a river Nene into the Wash then into Witham and Trent is only for the brave or foolish... 

 

... or the owner of a proper boat. 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

3 hours ago, carlt said:

 

... or the owner of a proper boat. 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Scholar Gypsy

[DandV]

3 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

I love the Jury Rigged mast and masthead light rigged on a halyard ready for hoisting!

[howardang]

6 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Had you just passed it, Simon?

 

Incidentally, there is an old saying at sea that goes "Only fools and first trippers sit on the rail"  No names, no pack drill but .....?

 

Howard

[David Schweizer]

This may seem a bit predatic, but can we please drop the current myth that all Narrow Boats are between 6ft 10ins and 7ft wide, and that anything over 7ft cannot get through the locks. There are hundreds of older boats which are over 7ft wide, including our old boat our boat, which was half an inch over 7ft, and we managed to get around the system without any difficulty, including parts of the BCN and the Cheshire locks, both of which are allegedly very tight.

[Scholar Gypsy]

12 minutes ago, DandV said:

I love the Jury Rigged mast and masthead light rigged on a halyard ready for hoisting!

Close, but not quite.  The ketchup bottle is to protect the GPS dongle from the rain. Output below (that photo taken at point E). The main function of the mast was to hold the go-pro camera for the timelapse video. The masthead light was used the next day, when we cast off at 0430 to catch the tide. I wonder if you can guess what is hanging off the quarter in this photo ...

11 minutes ago, howardang said:

Had you just passed it, Simon?

 

Incidentally, there is an old saying at sea that goes "Only fools and first trippers sit on the rail"  No names, no pack drill but .....?

 

Howard

Yes a nice saying, Howard. I think the sugar transfer was rather later on, approaching Wisbech.

[Captain Pegg]

17 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

This may seem a bit predatic, but can we please drop the current myth that all Narrow Boats are between 6ft 10ins and 7ft wide, and that anything over 7ft cannot get through the locks. There are hundreds of older boats which are over 7ft wide, including our old boat our boat, which was half an inch over 7ft, and we managed to get around the system without any difficulty, including parts of the BCN and the Cheshire locks, both of which are allegedly very tight.

True, but 7' is the generally published dimension of narrow locks so perhaps you better address that to CRT. Off the top of my head I can't think of a BCN lock that is tight for width. They are all also fine for the published length of 70' but if you want to take an ex-GU boat on the BCN which is both longer and wider than the published dimensions then it will be necessary to use the extra inches above the 7' width - and the 7' 0.5" of the boat or whatever it is - to be able to transit through some locks.

 

JP