Boat sunk in Poolstock lock

[blackrose]

On 03/03/2019 at 19:41, ditchcrawler said:

I always ride the gates, up and down

Why would you need to ride the gates going up? 20 years ago I got the bow of my first boat stuck under the beam of a gate going up and it started to lift the stern out of the water. I quickly got my mate to drop the paddles and let some water out from the other end. Always tried to keep the bow clear of lock gates since then.

[roland elsdon]

we always ride the gates up even with our little boat.

but we have a fender tied with a light single line and no chains. The fender rope breaks fairly regularly.

 

we generaly lift the fender going down locks because it overhangs the top beam and can hang up rendering it useless as it drops clear.

i cringe when i see fenders on multiple chain points.

 

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

... we have a fender tied with a light single line and no chains...

i cringe when i see fenders on multiple chain points.

 

I agree -  a "weak link" is essential. The MAIB report into a boat sinking as a result of a button secured by chains jamming on a gate highlights the issue very starkly. Someone may be along shortly with a boat name or a link to the report.

[Bee]

Stuff happens even to those who really ought to know better. Last summer we got hung up in a lock. Manned lock in France, we had booked it along with 2 other boats. gates opened, we went in with one other boat, waited for the second boat, it broke down within sight of us, put a turn around a bollard in the full lock whilst we waited and chatted to the lockkeeper, (it was windy and the boat was drifting about, v. expensive boat just in front of us.)  Lockeeper decided to let us through, pressed the button to lift the paddles, we didn't notice, next thing was that we were tipped over and the rope was bar tight, went for the bread knife to cut the rope but it parted with a big bang. A bit of inatention, the first lock of the day etc. etc.. If it can happen, sooner or later it will.

[Pluto]

On the L&LC, wide boats were always held forward against the gates. In this photo at Gargrave, you can see the cleat on the towpath-side gate which was used for this purpose. There is a wooden rubbing block on the beam below which kept the boat away from the gate when entering or leaving. On the far left is the slapping post. The balance beam swung against this, and it ensured that the mitre met in the same place every time such that the flat face of the mitre did not get rounded and leaky. I was told that in the 1960s someone became trapped between one of the posts and the beam, and was killed. Subsequently all the posts were removed, though a couple survive, though not now touched by the balance beam.

[TheBiscuits]

21 minutes ago, Pluto said:

On the L&LC, wide boats were always held forward against the gates.

I can see that working very well with a rounded shortboat, but it's not a great technique in a pointy narrowboat.

[Guest]

On 03/03/2019 at 23:05, TheBiscuits said:

 

On the L&L, always ride the tail gates, but watch out for bolts put in backwards.

 

Riding the head gates is a recipe for disaster!

 

This is a totally different canal to those easy skinny ones.

I agree, I live on the L&L.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

On 03/03/2019 at 22:54, TheBiscuits said:

They are 71x15 feet.

 

The cilled boat was under 45 feet, and sank after sunset last night.  It might be time to start padlocking them overnight again.

 

Refloated today and moved off.

I stand corrected. Must be confusing them with other locks up the flight. 

Yes she is afloat again and back in our marina. Owners and dog are fine which is the main thing.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Guest

[Keeping Up]

The problem with so many of the posts about locking techniques is that locks on different canals, built by different companies, still behave differently. Those with less widespread experience tend to assume that their techniques will work on other canals; they don't so either they sink their boat or they post here and sink someone else's. Some examples from my own experience, with a 67ft boat (it will be completely different with a boat of different length or draught); even a 70ft boat behaves completely differently from a 67ft boat in most locks but try telling a Vollie that!

 

GOING UP WIDE LOCKS:

 

On the Grand Union, the ground paddles pull and the gate paddles push. Simples.

 

On the Rochdale, the ground paddles push at first then pull after the level has risen by 3 ft, because they come in too high up.

 

On the eastern T&M the ground paddles push because they come in through the cill.

 

On Cranfleet Lock the gate paddles 1 and 3 (where 1 is nearest the side where the boat is) push but 2 and 4 pull.

 

GOING UP NARROW LOCKS:

 

Not much variation, most paddles simply pull, but consider a couple of oddities:

 

On the T&M the ground paddles pull but the gate paddles push. Its a great game to play with paddles to move the boat back and forth.

 

On the Northern S&W and a few others the boat is happier to sit right at the back of the lock.

 

GOING DOWN:

 

Wide locks and most narrow locks simply pull the boat forwards BUT beware some locks such as Hurlestone 3 which act oddly, at first the paddles actually push the boat back on to the cill by sucking out the water from underneath it.

 

Yes beware getting the fenders caught, I've caught the bow fender 3 times and the stern fender twice in 50 years; they've always had a Weak Link and I've not lost one yet!

Edited March 5, 2019 by Keeping Up
Trying errrrs

[ditchcrawler]

The ones that get me are coming up from Chester, each one seems to do something different 

[dmr]

3 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

The problem with so many of the posts about locking techniques is that locks on different canals, built by different companies, still behave differently. Those with less widespread experience tend to assume that their techniques will work on other canals; they don't so either they sink their boat or they post here and sink someone else's. Some examples from my own experience, with a 67ft boat (it will be completely different with a boat of different length or draught); even a 70ft boat behaves completely differently from a 67ft boat in most locks but try telling a Vollie that!

 

GOING UP WIDE LOCKS:

 

On the Grand Union, the ground paddles pull and the gate paddles push. Simples.

 

On the Rochdale, the ground paddles push at first then pull after the level has risen by 3 ft, because they come in too high up.

 

On the eastern T&M the ground paddles push because they come in through the cill.

 

On Cranfleet Lock the gate paddles 1 and 3 (where 1 is nearest the side where the boat is) push but 2 and 4 pull.

 

GOING UP NARROW LOCKS:

 

Not much variation, most paddles simply pull, but consider a couple of oddities:

 

On the T&M the ground paddles pull but the gate paddles push. Its a great game to play with paddles to move the boat back and forth.

 

On the Northern S&W and a few others the boat is happier to sit right at the back of the lock.

 

GOING DOWN:

 

Wide locks and most narrow locks simply pull the boat forwards BUT beware some locks such as Hurlestone 3 which act oddly, at first the paddles actually push the boat back on to the cill by sucking out the water from underneath it.

 

Yes beware getting the fenders caught, I've caught the bow fender 3 times and the stern fender twice in 50 years; they've always had a Weak Link and I've not lost one yet!

Good stuff, but boat length comes into this too, with a big boat in a narrow lock some quite fierce things can happen, probably because there's nowhere for the water to go. We try to be very flexible but in general when going up will ride the bottom gate in narrow locks and the top gate in wide locks. GU locks are lovely and hold the boat  to the side so no need to ride either gate. Rochdale locks a bit tricky but some on the K&A are evil.

 

..............Dave

[roland elsdon]

After 40 odd years of boating and umpteen near misses, the only thing that has stopped me sinking one of our boats is vigalence.

 

ive had them hung up with the bows over the gate, held down on obstructions, wedged in locks, stuck part down locks, lost the boat down a weir stream and had to jump in and swim for it

if it can happen it will, usually single handed.

 

 

As for the turf side locks on the kennet

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

After 40 odd years of boating and umpteen near misses, the only thing that has stopped me sinking one of our boats is vigalence.

 

ive had them hung up with the bows over the gate, held down on obstructions, wedged in locks, stuck part down locks, lost the boat down a weir stream and had to jump in and swim for it

if it can happen it will, usually single handed.

 

 

As for the turf side locks on the kennet

Midland Chandlery has special offers on Vigalences this week.

[Pluto]

3 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

After 40 odd years of boating and umpteen near misses, the only thing that has stopped me sinking one of our boats is vigalence.

 

ive had them hung up with the bows over the gate, held down on obstructions, wedged in locks, stuck part down locks, lost the boat down a weir stream and had to jump in and swim for it

if it can happen it will, usually single handed.

 

 

As for the turf side locks on the kennet

You wouldn't like passing through this one, then. Originally a narrow lock which was originally turf-sided, it was one of three built circa 1835 on the Naab which runs down into the Danube by Regensburg.

[Bee]

Made for the job.

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

The problem with so many of the posts about locking techniques is that locks on different canals, built by different companies, still behave differently. Those with less widespread experience tend to assume that their techniques will work on other canals; they don't so either they sink their boat or they post here and sink someone else's. Some examples from my own experience, with a 67ft boat (it will be completely different with a boat of different length or draught); even a 70ft boat behaves completely differently from a 67ft boat in most locks but try telling a Vollie that!

 

Even boats of the same length behave differently in the same lock!

 

Our two shareboats were both 58 foot long, one was a Par Buckle shell and the other a Graham Reeves. The latter was much less prone to being violently pulled forwards in the eastern T&M locks.

 

My current boat is a 60 foot Alexander shell and that behaves differently again.

 

Vigilance in each lock and a willingness to vary your technique to suit the circumstances is the key.

[Gallyleigho]

On 03/03/2019 at 23:00, TheBiscuits said:

Not bad at all.  Poolstock top had new gates installed in 2017/18.  It caused havoc because the leaks through the top lock were the only reason the central pound used to keep in water due to the leakage through the bottom lock!

 

I call rushing to get through locks after sunset ...

The photograph shows firemen working in daylight.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Gallyleigho said:

The photograph shows firemen working in daylight.

Around 5 pm ish

[Cheshire cat]

On 06/03/2019 at 09:32, cuthound said:

 

Even boats of the same length behave differently in the same lock!

 

Our two shareboats were both 58 foot long, one was a Par Buckle shell and the other a Graham Reeves. The latter was much less prone to being violently pulled forwards in the eastern T&M locks.

 

My current boat is a 60 foot Alexander shell and that behaves differently again.

 

Vigilance in each lock and a willingness to vary your technique to suit the circumstances is the key.

I think that is down to the short swim on the Pat Buckle boat. It's also why they are unsteerable in reverse ?

[Iain_S]

Also, Pat Buckle boats tend to be fairly light.

 

Our Pat Buckle boat would travel sideways quite spectacularly if there was a strong crosswind.  Used to spring the stern off and reverse from the services at Barton Turns to the entrance, as that was the easiest way to do it, with the wind ALWAYS blowing straight onto the services ?

[Richard Fairhurst]

On 05/03/2019 at 20:06, Keeping Up said:

The problem with so many of the posts about locking techniques is that locks on different canals, built by different companies, still behave differently. Those with less widespread experience tend to assume that their techniques will work on other canals; they don't so either they sink their boat or they post here and sink someone else's. Some examples from my own experience, with a 67ft boat (it will be completely different with a boat of different length or draught); even a 70ft boat behaves completely differently from a 67ft boat in most locks but try telling a Vollie that!

 

GOING UP WIDE LOCKS:

 

On the Grand Union, the ground paddles pull and the gate paddles push. Simples.

 

On the Rochdale, the ground paddles push at first then pull after the level has risen by 3 ft, because they come in too high up.

 

On the eastern T&M the ground paddles push because they come in through the cill.

 

On Cranfleet Lock the gate paddles 1 and 3 (where 1 is nearest the side where the boat is) push but 2 and 4 pull.

 

GOING UP NARROW LOCKS:

 

Not much variation, most paddles simply pull, but consider a couple of oddities:

 

On the T&M the ground paddles pull but the gate paddles push. Its a great game to play with paddles to move the boat back and forth.

 

On the Northern S&W and a few others the boat is happier to sit right at the back of the lock.

 

GOING DOWN:

 

Wide locks and most narrow locks simply pull the boat forwards BUT beware some locks such as Hurlestone 3 which act oddly, at first the paddles actually push the boat back on to the cill by sucking out the water from underneath it.

 

Yes beware getting the fenders caught, I've caught the bow fender 3 times and the stern fender twice in 50 years; they've always had a Weak Link and I've not lost one yet!

 

Great post. Fully concur with the eastern T&M and northern S&W (in a 40-footer).

[blackrose]

On 05/03/2019 at 05:40, roland elsdon said:

we always ride the gates up even with our little boat.

but we have a fender tied with a light single line and no chains. The fender rope breaks fairly regularly.

 

we generaly lift the fender going down locks because it overhangs the top beam and can hang up rendering it useless as it drops clear.

i cringe when i see fenders on multiple chain points.

 

 

In my case the weak link had broken but the bow of the boat was still caught. It won't save you every time. Better to stay away from some gates if your boat length doesn't warrant you being there.

Edited March 14, 2019 by blackrose

[roland elsdon]

yep the other problem is  we have been known to lift gates  off , and do gbh to the white rails. Hate having to have fenders on