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12V sockets or USB sockets - how common?


helmsman

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Hello all.

 

I am in the process of researching in anticipation of buying a live-aboard boat in the not too distant future.

 

I see many pictures of boats with plenty of what look like (and I assume are) regular 240v sockets up and down the length of the boat. What I don't see in pictures, and what I don't see mentioned in particulars, are 12v sockets or USB sockets.

 

My question is this: How common are 12v sockets on boats built since (say) 2000 and how common are USB aockets in more modern boats of similar age or newer? 

 

Also, I know many people fit the 240v sockets with integral USB sockets but are the USB sockets connected direct to 12v circuit or is there a step-down device incorporated into the 240v socket in which case it'd need the inverter to be running?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dean

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Some boats have 12V D.C. sockets, many don’t. The socket might be a round pin 5a socket, 2A round pin socket, old caravan flat pin socket or cigar lighter. Some folk even wire 12V across neutral & earth of a 13A socket. 

 

Very few boats have USB sockets unless built/fitted out/modified very recently. 

 

The USB sockets in 13A double socket outlets are fed from the 230V AC. 

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24 minutes ago, helmsman said:

Hello all.

 

I am in the process of researching in anticipation of buying a live-aboard boat in the not too distant future.

 

I see many pictures of boats with plenty of what look like (and I assume are) regular 240v sockets up and down the length of the boat. What I don't see in pictures, and what I don't see mentioned in particulars, are 12v sockets or USB sockets.

 

My question is this: How common are 12v sockets on boats built since (say) 2000 and how common are USB aockets in more modern boats of similar age or newer? 

 

Also, I know many people fit the 240v sockets with integral USB sockets but are the USB sockets connected direct to 12v circuit or is there a step-down device incorporated into the 240v socket in which case it'd need the inverter to be running?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dean

We have both 12v USB sockets, and USB sockets built into some of the 240v sockets (as said, these are powered from the mains and thus require the inverter to be on, or shore power). We have a couple of car cigarette lighter type 12v sockets but they don’t get much use as everything these days runs from USB. I use the cigarette lighter socket in the engine room area to run a pump occasionally - I have two pumps, one for extracting gearbox oil and one water pump for, eg, pumping old coolant out of the engine skin tank. In other words, both rarely used.

 

The USB sockets were retrofitted by me. Clearly the 12v ones are more economical for a live aboard who may not want to have the inverter running 24/7.

Edited by nicknorman
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I had one 12v socket in my boat when I bought her. That one is now a double USB, and I've added another pair of 12v (cigar lighter) and double USB sockets elsewhere. Actually,  I never really use the 12vs, but the USBs are very handy.

 

I've recently removed a double 230v socket with USB as even with nothing plugged in it was preventing my inverter from entering Eco mode.  Once this was back to a normal 230v socket all worked as it should  - something others may wish to consider perhaps?

  • Greenie 2
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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

I had one 12v socket in my boat when I bought her. That one is now a double USB, and I've added another pair of 12v (cigar lighter) and double USB sockets elsewhere. Actually,  I never really use the 12vs, but the USBs are very handy.

 

I've recently removed a double 230v socket with USB as even with nothing plugged in it was preventing my inverter from entering Eco mode.  Once this was back to a normal 230v socket all worked as it should  - something others may wish to consider perhaps?

Good tip. For some peoples set ups anyway.

  • Greenie 1
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Last year I replaced   a 12volt  DIN type socket with a double usb socket. In a way it was good thing as the old socket, although looking okay,crumbled in my hand as I removed it. The plastic had perished . When I say 'old' - the  boat was built in 2003  and I expect the socket was installed from new.

USB is 5 volt and the voltage reduction is built into the new socket.

 

I had previously used an adapter for phone charging but it was not very satisfactory. 

The new socket will take two USB devices. I don't recall the supplier of the USB socket but it was  cheap off ebay and probably from China.

 

 

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I have both a 12v cigarette socket and USB at front and rear of boat. Useful for emergency headlights etc as well as anything else 12v that I may want to run (TV etc) Wire run to the forward socket is good for about 10 amp with buggarall voltage drop so quite useful.

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52 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Stepping 12v up to 240 through an inverter and then back down to 5v for the usb is a good way of creating heat, and a poor way of using electricity effectively.

Stepping up, yes perhaps. But the efficiency of these built in mains to USB converters is extremely high and no measurable  energy is dissipated when they are idle.

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35 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Don't understand why you'd choose one £30,000 boat over another, for the sake of a £10 USB or 12V socket which can be added easily.

Agree. It wouldn't be a deal breaker. I just want to know what to expect as we get closer to purchase time. I'm sure there will always be elements of a boat that will need sorting out post purchase if they're not just-so beforehand.

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5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Stepping up, yes perhaps. But the efficiency of these built in mains to USB converters is extremely high and no measurable  energy is dissipated when they are idle.

That's what I thought, but Sea Dog's experience may suggest otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

I've recently removed a double 230v socket with USB as even with nothing plugged in it was preventing my inverter from entering Eco mode.  Once this was back to a normal 230v socket all worked as it should  - something others may wish to consider perhaps?

 

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44 minutes ago, David Mack said:

They look good. Link saved!

Thanks.

 

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

The USB sockets in 13A double socket outlets are fed from the 230V AC. 

Not entirely unexpected.

 

Thanks for the info.

Edited by helmsman
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I fitted 4x USB sockets to my boat - one on the back deck next to the morse (in case your phone battery got low during the day, plug it in and charge up while driving, with it handy); two next to the double bed (for phone charging) and one in the saloon, which was conveniently located for the Mi-Fi unit. In retrospect, the one by the morse didn't get used much - my phone is pretty good at retaining charge, so really only once per night did it need to be charged up. 

 

I guess if you had a bigger boat, then one per bed (or two per double bed), near the bed; plus one for the Mi-Fi wherever that is located if its not permanently wired up, would be enough.

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33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's what I thought, but Sea Dog's experience may suggest otherwise.

 

 

The devices no doubt momentarily take a small amount of current when power is first applied, to charge up capacitors etc and this is what the inverter may see when it sends a pulse of 240v down the wire looking for any loads. But in the steady state, these sort of devices use a minuscule amount of power.

 

See for example this report:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/231886/tested-should-you-unplug-chargers-when-youre-not-using-them/

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31 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

The devices no doubt momentarily take a small amount of current when power is first applied, to charge up capacitors etc and this is what the inverter may see when it sends a pulse of 240v down the wire looking for any loads. But in the steady state, these sort of devices use a minuscule amount of power.

 

See for example this report:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/231886/tested-should-you-unplug-chargers-when-youre-not-using-them/

Sounds feasible, and I too doubt there's any measurable loss when the inverter is active, but it does keep it awake when in the pulse mode you refer to.  I have a few (+1 now!) of these at home on the ring main and I'm entirely happy with them there.

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2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Stepping 12v up to 240 through an inverter and then back down to 5v for the usb is a good way of creating heat, and a poor way of using electricity effectively.

Except of course that the most commonly used alternative is to plug a phone charger into a 230v socket which then does exactly the same thing. The ability to charge via USB without the inverter being on is exactly why I've fitted the USB sockets on my 12v system too.

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The main problem i have found with 12v usb sockets is quality.

a great deal are made  no brand in china with double ports in the size of a cigar socket.

with a 2.1 and a 1 amp charge or even more in this small package tgey can get hot. An ipad can take 10 hrs to charge even on the 2.1 resulting in a great deal of heat .

 

i have had 1 branded and 1 unbranded socket melt.

this is less likely with the conventional plug type mains usb socket or three pin uk plug, because they have a greater surface area to cool.

however i notice the latest apple mains  plug in charger is tiny.

If im using the inverter for something else and the engines running i put a mains usb charger on for 2.1 items.

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A problem many have encountered with the 12 volt USB sockets is most are built with a blue spotlight inside, it is only a small LED to indicate it is on but it chucks out an enormous amount of light, like a nitelite for a child's bedroom. You can cover the top with stick on stuff but it still glows through the sockets. Other than that they are great.

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10 hours ago, Detling said:

 

A problem many have encountered with the 12 volt USB sockets is most are built with a blue spotlight inside, it is only a small LED to indicate it is on but it chucks out an enormous amount of light, like a nitelite for a child's bedroom. You can cover the top with stick on stuff but it still glows through the sockets. Other than that they are great.

The ones I bought have a tiny red LED. Also have a switch so they can be turned off when not in use.

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I've got the car socket things (2x12v car socket / 3xusb). And they do have a blue led, which is too bright really. I bought 10 or 12 to fit around the boat wherever I have 12v wires (which is next to the 240v sockets). I wasn't (and still am not) entirely sure if I'm going all 12v or all 240v  so it's a mish mash at the moment regarding what runs off what. But at least that way I have the most options, ie I can turn the inverter off if out on the cut and still use laptop etc. (12 to 19v adaptor).

I do wonder how much current 12x blue leds would use though. Even if they only take say 25ma each (and I think it may be a bit more than that) that would still be 0.3a per hour, and over 24 hours that is 7.2a or 50ah a week - not an inconsiderable amount. I'm not sure if the led's could be "snipped" (or unsoldered if surface mount)  they may form part of the 5v regulators circuitry.

Mine were from Lidl / Aldi and out of the two or three I've used so far I have had failures on both the 12v socket (came unsoldered internally) and the 5v usb sockets. Food for though.

Edited by Johny London
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I have five double mains sockets spread around the boat and four 12V. Of the four 12V, three are typically in use for LED reading lamps and a home made audio amplifier. I originally used DIN12V  sockets, but they are a bit rubbish, giving poor connections. Replaced them with 2 pole Speakon sockets, with the appropriate plugs on the appliances. Much better design and well made. Smaller in size and they twist lock in place. You have to replace the plugs on your 12V appliances and make sure to get the polarity right.

 

No 5V USB sockets yet. I use wall warts in the nearest mains socket. May replace some of the mains sockets with ones with built in USB outlets, or have them off the 12V circuit. Not decided.

 

Jen

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