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12v fridges


curlass24

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27 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I'd be very interested to know this.

It seems to me that if you can really have an inverter as Mr Smelly has that is only self consuming 300ma, that would be the way to go. 

I have a 3kw Victron combi and was very surprised to find that is seems to self consume over 3a - and has almost certainly been the cause of all my battery woes over the years as I was estimating it at 0.5a!

It would certainly 'not help'. There is a big difference in 'budgeting' for 12Ah per day and an actual of 72Ah per day

 

My Sterling 1800w "Quasi" sine wave inverter draws 0.75 amps with nothing connected to it.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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25 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I'd be very interested to know this.

It seems to me that if you can really have an inverter as Mr Smelly has that is only self consuming 300ma, that would be the way to go. 

I have a 3kw Victron combi and was very surprised to find that is seems to self consume over 3a - and has almost certainly been the cause of all my battery woes over the years as I was estimating it at 0.5a!

The problem as you quite rightly say is that many expensive combis and inverters although well made and indeed take a lot of hammer and work faultlessly, not all are sipping juice whilst in standby/mode or whatever the company who produce it call it. As stated by Old Goat. My Mastervolt was below 1 amp and was good enough but my present unit sits happily at 0.3 when switched on doing nowt. However as others say it may not wake up depending on the unit and only after purchase will you know on your precise set up. For instance my fridge or freezer kicks it into action instantly every time, however if its on standby at 0.3 amp the telly alone will not start, I have to switch something such as the cd player on momentarily to start the telly. After telly has started nothing else needs to be switched on as the telly alone keeps the unit working. I was disparing for a while as my maker no longer has a UK based supplier but I have located one in Germany who is happy to ship if I want to buy another.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It would certainly 'not help'. There is a big difference in 'budgeting' for 12Ah per day and an actual of 72Ah per day

 

My Sterling 1800w "Quasi" sine wave inverter draws 0.75 amps with nothing connected to it.

Is that on standby. My Sterling sine wave inverter draws 4A when not on stand by and usually won't burst into life from standby. I definitely could not have it running 24/7, and just turn it on and off when needed.

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13 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Is that on standby. My Sterling sine wave inverter draws 4A when not on stand by and usually won't burst into life from standby. I definitely could not have it running 24/7, and just turn it on and off when needed.

It doesn't have standby (its an old, early - year 2003 ish -  model) simply on and off.

 

When 'on' with nothing connected / plugged in it draws 0.75 amp.

When 'off' (obviously) it draws nothing.

 

There is no 'economy' or 'standby' option. 

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59 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Is that on standby. My Sterling sine wave inverter draws 4A when not on stand by and usually won't burst into life from standby. I definitely could not have it running 24/7, and just turn it on and off when needed.

My last boat had a new stirling  2.5 kw combi fitted when I bought it, like yours it was using 4 amps whilst powering nowt, there was a 12 volt fridge. After a month or so the stirling went on ebay and I bought a 1200 watt secondhand mastervolt for peanuts and a new charger and a new mains fridge for less money than I got for the stirling combi. Result!!

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18 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Everything costs literaly HUNDREDS of pounds less per item Fridges, freezers, tvs etc etc etc. A top notch inverter can be got with the difference alone on the cost of one set of white goods. On top of this having mains 24/7 365 makes everything easier and so many more places to buy stuff with ease. Bin the daft 12 volt fridge. No huge cabling to buy either on long runs.

 

 

In exchange for which you now have all the risks of hull corrosion associated with 240v on board, and the possibly massive costs of overplating to worry about instead... :icecream:

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

In exchange for which you now have all the risks of hull corrosion associated with 240v on board, and the possibly massive costs of overplating to worry about instead... :icecream:

 

 

 

 

12v = Camping

240V = Lush

 

:)

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12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

12v = Fred Flintstone!!

 

I'm not sure what you actually need 240V for. I have lithium battery-powered portable appliances, mostly. 

 

Far better than those Neanderthal cable-fed appliances you seem to like....

 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm not sure what you actually need 240V for. I have lithium battery-powered portable appliances, mostly. 

 

Far better than those Neanderthal cable-fed appliances you seem to like....

 

Whilst I am not averse to a game of tennis I think I will pass on this one :tired:

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2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

12v = Camping

240V = Lush

 

:)

About the most succinct summary of cooling arrangements  I've read to date!

Not that 12V (I prefer 24v, but that's another consideration) is bad, to make low voltage DC viable you need a good quality modern carcass - which pushes the end user price up - beyond what folks are prepared to pay - and that assumes the converter can get a supply of good quality carcases. The alternative is  "proper boaty (salt water stuff) which are pricey and very small.

'Her Indoors' (and myself) prefer a good supply of ice for One's G&T and that can only be obtained economically from a Fridge Freezer. (having separate machines doesn't make sense if you're worried about power consumption). Thus I have a very ancient Lec (see Bognor Regis and die) case, which is well beyond its anything usable date - BUT is does make loadsa ice (plus keeps a goodly amount frozen food) in store. We hate shopping when cruising...

 

When I get off my fundament, I will install a Liebherr FF ('cos the case looks well designed and it sips power) and Mr. Batt's unit - complete with 12/24v DC compressor will either got to the tip or I'll happily recycle it to the NB community - but it's tatty and needs door seals.

 

I'm writing this 'cos folks take to the water; are happy to spend loadsa cash so that their internet works, but penny pinch the basic (practical) need of living on a boat - without having to wear a hair shirt.

 

If anyone is considering getting away from obscene property costs BUT still wants reasonable 'home' comforts - FHS consider the domestic 'needs'  first - rather than buy a boat that was originally intended to be camped on for a couple of weeks holiday.

 

Old IBM mantra "THINK" before / while you leap.

 

Oh dear, too much aperitif on an empty stomach....

  • Greenie 1
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Many of the “240v” things we use these days have an adapter which converts the 240v AC into some kind of DC. Even the piano I bought in October runs off a DC supply.

 

My fridge is the only thing that is bespoke designed for a boat and, once bought, the cost is forgotten. I turn the inverter on to run my printer, Nespresso, Hoover, and a few tools, as well as charging my portable hoover and shaver. Very occasional, and for short periods at a time.

 

Fridge keeps things cool and provides plenty of ice, and it can actually be used completely as a freezer if needs be.

 

I can understand the desire for a 240v AC boat, but a DC boat is not as difficult as some make it out to be.

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11 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Many of the “240v” things we use these days have an adapter which converts the 240v AC into some kind of DC. Even the piano I bought in October runs off a DC supply.

 

My fridge is the only thing that is bespoke designed for a boat and, once bought, the cost is forgotten. I turn the inverter on to run my printer, Nespresso, Hoover, and a few tools, as well as charging my portable hoover and shaver. Very occasional, and for short periods at a time.

 

Fridge keeps things cool and provides plenty of ice, and it can actually be used completely as a freezer if needs be.

 

I can understand the desire for a 240v AC boat, but a DC boat is not as difficult as some make it out to be.

 

Err, if you have an inverter then you don't have a DC boat. ?

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  • 4 months later...
13 minutes ago, starman said:

A very basic 12v fridge query - is cable size determined by distance between appliance and power supply (as Shoreline seem to suggest) or total out-and-back length of cable?

Its the same thing. Voltage drop is directly proportional to the length of cable which is of course twice the distance between battery and fridge and the current drawn. And inversely proportional to the cable cross sectional area. 

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24 minutes ago, starman said:

A very basic 12v fridge query - is cable size determined by distance between appliance and power supply (as Shoreline seem to suggest) or total out-and-back length of cable?

Shoreline have considered the total ‘there and back’ length when they wrote their simple rule of 1 sq millimetre per metre distance twixt source and fridge. 
 

So... both of the above :)

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8 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Its the same thing. Voltage drop is directly proportional to the length of cable which is of course twice the distance between battery and fridge and the current drawn. And inversely proportional to the cable cross sectional area. 

 

Just now, WotEver said:

Shoreline have considered the total ‘there and back’ length when they wrote their simple rule of 1 sq millimetre per metre distance twixt source and fridge. 
 

So... both of the above :)

What they actually say in their chart is: CABLE LENGTH (metres) (distance from battery to fridge)
(Apologies for the random box below - I tried in vain to reproduce the box.)

 

As you can see it specifically isn't out-and-back; hence my confusion.

   
       
   
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54 minutes ago, starman said:

What they actually say in their chart is: CABLE LENGTH (metres) (distance from battery to fridge)

Yes, that’s what I said. Measure the length of the cable run from battery to fridge then use 1 sq mm per metre of that measurement (and round up). 
 

56 minutes ago, starman said:

As you can see it specifically isn't out-and-back; hence my confusion.

As I explained, they’ve already taken that into account with their guidance. 


If you prefer, you can measure the cable length, double it for there and back, then use 0.5 sq mm per metre length of your result. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Yes, that’s what I said. Measure the length of the cable run from battery to fridge then use 1 sq mm per metre of that measurement (and round up). 
 

As I explained, they’ve already taken that into account with their guidance. 

Ah yes, apologies didn’t read your reply properly. 

Good: I’ve got plenty of 6mm cable but no 10mm. 

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On 27/02/2019 at 15:31, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have a Waeco.

uses about 30Ah per day so pretty much needs a 110Ah battery to itself (unless you want to run it much below the recommended 50% SoC)

 

Works well as long as you use heavy enough cable for the install (READ THE Manual)

If the cable is too small (thin) then it will not freeze unless the engine is running) It would freeze up nicely during the day, but by morning there was a puddle of water in the bottom of the fridge and everything was de-frosted.

 

NOTE : this is not unique to Waeco it relates to all fridges.

Hmmmm, I have a Waeco Coolmatic [50?] circa 10 years old. It has been connected to shore mains via a transformer. I assume it is 12v. It runs often, and consumes much leccy in hot weather, it freezes, usually on setting 1 and a bit. It often drips water. There is no salad compartment, probably lost. I keep door closed most of the time [yes, I know why!],

I get the impression it acts more like a freezer than a fridge. I fill the freezer compartment with an insulated bag, rather than fish fingers. 

 I assume I will be able to run it off the [new] 400ah battery bank  and new [500 watt] solar. It seems a bit mad to run it through an inverter to a transformer. I am quite happy to turn it off when the outside temp is 0 Celsius.

Edited by LadyG
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9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I assume I will be able to run it off the [new] 400ah battery bank  and new [500 watt] solar. It seems a bit mad to run it through an inverter to a transformer.

Just make sure that you use 'heavy' enough cable for your 12v wiring. Recommendation is at least 1mm squared per metre (distance from fridge to batteries).

Or, follow the guidance graph in the Waeco owners manual

 

 

 

Screenshot (5).png

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