Hull painting with Zinka

[Fly Navy]

Or is it Zinca?

 

Has anyone coated their hull in this and how much please

 

50' Narrowboat.

 

(I have heard the cost is horrendous but need confirmation!).

 

Thanks in advance

[WotEver]

It’s Zinga. Plenty of threads about it if you have a search. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by WotEver

[peterboat]

Me and plenty of others, I dont think it was expensive, glass blasting and spraying plus a week and a half in a drydock, against every two years fighting rust for a week and then blacking it with something that dissolves in diesel!

Whether you Zinger the boat or two pack it, you will have the same dry dock and blasting charges, I bought the Zinger from an agent and paid about seven hundred pounds, I also bought to much of it, and used it on all sorts of other stuff, so what you need is a quote from a dry dock for the work and add on the price of the zinger

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Fly Navy said:

 

 

Has anyone coated their hull in this and how much please

 

 

25 to 50Kgs.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

25 to 50Kgs.

To much Bob, Zinger will tell you how much when you contact them you are also better factoring in zinger blacking as well which I used dries hard as nails!!

[blackrose]

Zinca, Zinga, Zinger? Are you sure this isn't what you're looking for?

 

https://www.kfc.co.uk/our-food/for-one/burgers/zinger-burger

 

[Dr Bob]

8 hours ago, peterboat said:

To much Bob, Zinger will tell you how much when you contact them you are also better factoring in zinger blacking as well which I used dries hard as nails!!

I looked at the data sheet and it said 0.4kg/ m2. I guessed and rounded up to 1 or 2 cans. The OP obviously wanted a price hence my response.

However having looked at the bumff, it does look interesting. Looks like you have to grit blast as for any 2 pack epoxy so that will be the larger part of the total cost.

Which yards are doing Zinger? I am tempted.

[Detling]

The only one I know is Debdale, they have a long waiting list, last year in June they were booking into 2020.

[Dr Bob]

20 minutes ago, Detling said:

The only one I know is Debdale, they have a long waiting list, last year in June they were booking into 2020.

Ok, ta.

Its in demand then.

[Fly Navy]

thanks guys

[Captain Pegg]

 

22 minutes ago, Fly Navy said:

thanks guys

 

Two different systems being described here.

 

Zinga is cold applied like a paint and from what I can ascertain from Robby and Peterboat - members here who have applied it - they have applied it themselves but it does require grit blasting first. The zinc in Zinga is in solid form as a fine powder.

 

Debdale apply a thermal sprayed zinc coating. That's a specialist job. The zinc is molten in that system.

 

JP

[dmr]

Aqueduct marina offer zinc coating which I believe is Zinga. Debdale have a high tech molten zinc sprayer which my intuition suggests is going to be better than a paint, but I can find no real evidence either way. I would also love to know how Zinga alone compares with two pack but can find no impartial evidence.

 

...................Dave

[Mike Adams]

I would recommend the process at Debdale. 4 years after blasting, zinc spraying, and two pack with an 85 year old hull and no signs of any problems. It is shame about the waiting list at Debdale. I was hoping to have my other boat done sometime. I have never used Zinga but other zinc based paints I have used don't seem to work that well. I think Zinga is single pack paint. If that is used as a first coat it may be the weak link between the steel surface and the two coat finish. I think there are lot of two pack coatings that will work well directly on properly shot blasted steel. The advantage of Debdale is that they have very controlled conditions inside the facility which gives much better control of the whole process. Time will tell if these processes are more cost effective but if I can get 10 years between repaints I will think it well worthwhile compared to spending weeks blacking in a dry-dock. The only disadvantage of two pack coating seems to be fading to a grey over time.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Aqueduct marina offer zinc coating which I believe is Zinga. Debdale have a high tech molten zinc sprayer which my intuition suggests is going to be better than a paint, but I can find no real evidence either way. I would also love to know how Zinga alone compares with two pack but can find no impartial evidence.

 

...................Dave

 

20 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I would recommend the process at Debdale. 4 years after blasting, zinc spraying, and two pack with an 85 year old hull and no signs of any problems. It is shame about the waiting list at Debdale. I was hoping to have my other boat done sometime. I have never used Zinga but other zinc based paints I have used don't seem to work that well. I think Zinga is single pack paint. If that is used as a first coat it may be the weak link between the steel surface and the two coat finish. I think there are lot of two pack coatings that will work well directly on properly shot blasted steel. The advantage of Debdale is that they have very controlled conditions inside the facility which gives much better control of the whole process. Time will tell if these processes are more cost effective but if I can get 10 years between repaints I will think it well worthwhile compared to spending weeks blacking in a dry-dock. The only disadvantage of two pack coating seems to be fading to a grey over time.

Ok, I can see a lot of confusion here. Let me try and give you some information.

 

Protective coatings for steel come in two types

i) surface pacification

ii) barrier coating

Surface pacification is all about putting something on the surface that will corrode itself rather than the steel (ie like galvanic protection). Best example is red lead paint (not red oxide which is cr*p). Zinga will be one of these or hot sprayed zinc (which I now understand are different). These paints will contain the active material ie zinc, red lead, in a one pack 'soft' coating. They are not designed to stop water permeation. Often they were top coated with simple alkyd gloss. Adhesion to the steel is not really an issue as they protect by galvanic action.

Barrier coatings are designed to stop water permeating through the coating and have excellent adhesion so water finds it difficult to get to the surface through the coating and if it does get there it cannot undercut the coating as it is stuck on too well. Best example is 2 pack epoxy which has the best adhesion of any coating and is very good at stopping water permeation - but doesnt stop it altogether. These barrier coatings tend to be very hard, tough and not very flexible but can go brittle with age.

You dont tend to get barrier coatings that work in a surface pacification way as the loadings of the active materials tends to be too high to get a good barrier coating.

What does all of that mean?

Epoxies are not designed to go over 'soft' pacifying coatings and could delaminate as they do tend to become too hard to flex. Putting epoxy on top of zinga may not give your the best of both coatings. To be clear, by soft I mean single pack, by hard I mean two pack.

In the 50's, 60's 70's etc, the Forth road bridge was painted with Red Lead primer and an alkyd top coat. Today it is painted with glass flake 2 pack epoxy. I doubt the performance of the coatings are that far apart. Red lead was bl**dy good. The project manager for the 2004-2008 repaint of the Road bridge used to race with us. The question is now though whether the zinga (or hot sprayed zinc) is as good as red lead. No amount of lab tests will ever tell you the answer as all manufactures will change the tests to favour the performance of their product.

I dont know enough about the hot sprayed zinc to know if that works well with a 2 pack epoxy. The best way to try and evaluate what the best coating is, is to collect all this anecdotal information and look at it. There will be failures as any 2 pack or zinga needs to be applied to SA 2.5 blasted steel which is not easy in the British climate.

At the moment, there is a lot of steel to rust through on the side of our boat and I'm happy with a once every 2 years slapping some black stuff on to the existing rust. Hot zinc or zinga looks interesting and I need to pay more attention to these posts.

 

[cuthound]

My boat will be 12 years old this year.

 

When new the hull up to the tunnels was sprayed with Zinga and coated with 2 pack epoxy.

 

To the best of my knowledge it has never been overpainted with new blacking.

 

The 2 pack is beginning to come off in a couple of small areas at points of frequent contact (stem post and bow). There is only slight  surface rust where the blacking has come off.

 

This year it is booked in for reblacking. Hopefully it will last as long again.

Edited February 28, 2019 by cuthound

[Stilllearning]

13 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

 

Two different systems being described here.

 

Zinga is cold applied like a paint and from what I can ascertain from Robby and Peterboat - members here who have applied it - they have applied it themselves but it does require grit blasting first. The zinc in Zinga is in solid form as a fine powder.

 

Debdale apply a thermal sprayed zinc coating. That's a specialist job. The zinc is molten in that system.

 

JP

That must be an interesting system to use, as zinc melts at 419.5 deg Celsius.

[peterboat]

11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Ok, I can see a lot of confusion here. Let me try and give you some information.

 

Protective coatings for steel come in two types

i) surface pacification

ii) barrier coating

Surface pacification is all about putting something on the surface that will corrode itself rather than the steel (ie like galvanic protection). Best example is red lead paint (not red oxide which is cr*p). Zinga will be one of these or hot sprayed zinc (which I now understand are different). These paints will contain the active material ie zinc, red lead, in a one pack 'soft' coating. They are not designed to stop water permeation. Often they were top coated with simple alkyd gloss. Adhesion to the steel is not really an issue as they protect by galvanic action.

Barrier coatings are designed to stop water permeating through the coating and have excellent adhesion so water finds it difficult to get to the surface through the coating and if it does get there it cannot undercut the coating as it is stuck on too well. Best example is 2 pack epoxy which has the best adhesion of any coating and is very good at stopping water permeation - but doesnt stop it altogether. These barrier coatings tend to be very hard, tough and not very flexible but can go brittle with age.

You dont tend to get barrier coatings that work in a surface pacification way as the loadings of the active materials tends to be too high to get a good barrier coating.

What does all of that mean?

Epoxies are not designed to go over 'soft' pacifying coatings and could delaminate as they do tend to become too hard to flex. Putting epoxy on top of zinga may not give your the best of both coatings. To be clear, by soft I mean single pack, by hard I mean two pack.

In the 50's, 60's 70's etc, the Forth road bridge was painted with Red Lead primer and an alkyd top coat. Today it is painted with glass flake 2 pack epoxy. I doubt the performance of the coatings are that far apart. Red lead was bl**dy good. The project manager for the 2004-2008 repaint of the Road bridge used to race with us. The question is now though whether the zinga (or hot sprayed zinc) is as good as red lead. No amount of lab tests will ever tell you the answer as all manufactures will change the tests to favour the performance of their product.

I dont know enough about the hot sprayed zinc to know if that works well with a 2 pack epoxy. The best way to try and evaluate what the best coating is, is to collect all this anecdotal information and look at it. There will be failures as any 2 pack or zinga needs to be applied to SA 2.5 blasted steel which is not easy in the British climate.

At the moment, there is a lot of steel to rust through on the side of our boat and I'm happy with a once every 2 years slapping some black stuff on to the existing rust. Hot zinc or zinga looks interesting and I need to pay more attention to these posts.

 

Great post Bob, Castleford marina will do the glass blasting for you, I sprayed the zinga myself, it cut down my bill and they were to busy anyway, give Shane a call for the price of the blasting. It worked out well for me as they blasted some and then I cleaned and zingered it. At the end I gave it another two coats then zinger blacked it. The zinger blacking will go grey at which point I gave it some coats of keelblack, just for cosmetic reasons, also it allowed me to check out the zinger protection, which was great

[dmr]

12 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Ok, I can see a lot of confusion here. Let me try and give you some information.

 

Protective coatings for steel come in two types

i) surface pacification

ii) barrier coating

Surface pacification is all about putting something on the surface that will corrode itself rather than the steel (ie like galvanic protection). Best example is red lead paint (not red oxide which is cr*p). Zinga will be one of these or hot sprayed zinc (which I now understand are different). These paints will contain the active material ie zinc, red lead, in a one pack 'soft' coating. They are not designed to stop water permeation. Often they were top coated with simple alkyd gloss. Adhesion to the steel is not really an issue as they protect by galvanic action.

Barrier coatings are designed to stop water permeating through the coating and have excellent adhesion so water finds it difficult to get to the surface through the coating and if it does get there it cannot undercut the coating as it is stuck on too well. Best example is 2 pack epoxy which has the best adhesion of any coating and is very good at stopping water permeation - but doesnt stop it altogether. These barrier coatings tend to be very hard, tough and not very flexible but can go brittle with age.

You dont tend to get barrier coatings that work in a surface pacification way as the loadings of the active materials tends to be too high to get a good barrier coating.

What does all of that mean?

Epoxies are not designed to go over 'soft' pacifying coatings and could delaminate as they do tend to become too hard to flex. Putting epoxy on top of zinga may not give your the best of both coatings. To be clear, by soft I mean single pack, by hard I mean two pack.

In the 50's, 60's 70's etc, the Forth road bridge was painted with Red Lead primer and an alkyd top coat. Today it is painted with glass flake 2 pack epoxy. I doubt the performance of the coatings are that far apart. Red lead was bl**dy good. The project manager for the 2004-2008 repaint of the Road bridge used to race with us. The question is now though whether the zinga (or hot sprayed zinc) is as good as red lead. No amount of lab tests will ever tell you the answer as all manufactures will change the tests to favour the performance of their product.

I dont know enough about the hot sprayed zinc to know if that works well with a 2 pack epoxy. The best way to try and evaluate what the best coating is, is to collect all this anecdotal information and look at it. There will be failures as any 2 pack or zinga needs to be applied to SA 2.5 blasted steel which is not easy in the British climate.

At the moment, there is a lot of steel to rust through on the side of our boat and I'm happy with a once every 2 years slapping some black stuff on to the existing rust. Hot zinc or zinga looks interesting and I need to pay more attention to these posts.

 

Interesting stuff, but you would make a good politician as you have not answered the questions

 

Exactly what is red oxide??? I have assumed its zinc (zinc oxide?) plus a red pigment to give a feel good factor to us old farts who remember how good red lead was?

 

I reckon there are three or four hull treatment  requirements:

1 It must stick well

2 It must be totally waterproof (and for a long time)

3 It must resist knocks and abrasion

4 Ideally it should have anti-corrosion properties

 

Epoxy does pretty well on these scores.

How well does painted on Zinga do???

Reading some technical papers suggests that hot dip galvanising forms a sort of alloy at the zinc-steel interface (good sticking!) and that this is actually harder than the steel itself. Zinga will not do this, I wonder if the Debdale spray does? 

Zinc does give galvanic/cathodic protection but I am not sure how important this really is, if the coating is 100% waterproof then there is no need for it. If there is a scrape then does the adjacent zinc prevent rust? Zinc reduces galvanic corrosion but does it prevent bog standard rusting? (in my experience with cars the answer is no).

 

In my case resisting knocks and scrapes is the critical thing and this is why we have to dry dock every 3 years to repair the scrapes. I have "anecdotal" evidence from other boaters that their epoxy lasts 7 years with zero scrapes. Are we crap boaters who hit the bank too hard when we moor? Is our epoxy (International) inferior?, was it applied badly? Is it because we are a big heavy boat and travel over 1000 miles every year and often moor against not optimum banks????

 

I think you are right in that evidence from boaters would be ideal but I suspect that most people, boaters in particular, are very bad at giving impartial evidence, most appear to say "I chose this and its wonderful". How many posts do we see on this forum saying "I got my decision a bit wrong and would do it different next time?

Some even choose a cassette bog and say its wonderful .

 

If Zinc really is better then I am interested and would be happy to pay Debdale prices. The epoxy is coming up to 7 years old and will get its second touching this year (The Rochdale has given it a real beating), at some stage I suspect it will all have to come off and be re-done, and as the boat gets older we should really get the baseplate done too.

Has anybody had the Debdale Zinc thing done and used the boat hard and continuously for a number of years then  dry docked the boat for a good look????

 

....................Dave

 

 

[Detling]

I had the Debdale hot treatment last year and will need to wait several years to see if it works, but I saw a boat there having a 5 year check and it looked very good. I have used a heavy zinc paint (Galvofroid) on a boat trailer, I painted two coats onto bare steel and other than slight retouching over deep scratches, the trailer still looked good 15 years later despite many dunks in fresh and salt water, the 'galvanised' hitch had a lot of rust on it but not the trailer.  This obviously is not the same as a hull but zinc paint worked well and better than any paint I know, so it has promise.

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

Interesting stuff, but you would make a good politician as you have not answered the questions

 

Exactly what is red oxide??? I have assumed its zinc (zinc oxide?) plus a red pigment to give a feel good factor to us old farts who remember how good red lead was?

 

I reckon there are three or four hull treatment  requirements:

1 It must stick well

2 It must be totally waterproof (and for a long time)

3 It must resist knocks and abrasion

4 Ideally it should have anti-corrosion properties

 

Barrier coating work by being good at 1, 2, and 3  but not 4.

Pacifying coatings work by 4.

These are two completely different mechanisms to prevent corrosion.

For barrier coatings ie your 2 pack epoxy, they stop water getting to the surface so no corrosion. If you get a scrape, then the exposed surface will rust but because the adhesion of the coating is very good,  the rust will not undercut it and force the coating off. This is where epoxies are so much better than other coatings as the adhesion is vastly superior. Less adhesion and the coating would be undercut by the rust and the rust patches would spread. If you get a scratch on a pacifying coating then the rust cant spread as the active ingredients will stop the rust formation.

Red lead was the best pacifying coating but I am not sure if anything today can come close. Not a clue what is in red oxide but it is not lead and it doesnt do half the job.

Is zinc (hot sprayed, cold applied) any good? I dont know. Hot dipped yes, but difficult to dip a boat.

I do know that a good 2 pack epoxy applied to a good surface (SA2.5) should be good for 10 years+ as long as scrapes and bashes are touched up regularly. My worry over going the epoxy route is the question of whether the yard do it properly. Painting in the UK is not easy with our weather. I spent may weeks out on site in the 80's watching our tolerant epoxies dry....and even with the best will in the world it is difficult to get the surface right and to have the right temperature, sun and wind for painting.

The world does not have a good tolerant corrosion protection coating that will last 10 years any more. 2 pack epoxy is probably the best for an SA2.5 surface. Maybe in the next 5 years or so, zinga will emerge as the best solution. I cant see any evidence at the moment that any one system is better than another except we know 2 pack epoxies do work.

[peterboat]

10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Barrier coating work by being good at 1, 2, and 3  but not 4.

Pacifying coatings work by 4.

These are two completely different mechanisms to prevent corrosion.

For barrier coatings ie your 2 pack epoxy, they stop water getting to the surface so no corrosion. If you get a scrape, then the exposed surface will rust but because the adhesion of the coating is very good,  the rust will not undercut it and force the coating off. This is where epoxies are so much better than other coatings as the adhesion is vastly superior. Less adhesion and the coating would be undercut by the rust and the rust patches would spread. If you get a scratch on a pacifying coating then the rust cant spread as the active ingredients will stop the rust formation.

Red lead was the best pacifying coating but I am not sure if anything today can come close. Not a clue what is in red oxide but it is not lead and it doesnt do half the job.

Is zinc (hot sprayed, cold applied) any good? I dont know. Hot dipped yes, but difficult to dip a boat.

I do know that a good 2 pack epoxy applied to a good surface (SA2.5) should be good for 10 years+ as long as scrapes and bashes are touched up regularly. My worry over going the epoxy route is the question of whether the yard do it properly. Painting in the UK is not easy with our weather. I spent may weeks out on site in the 80's watching our tolerant epoxies dry....and even with the best will in the world it is difficult to get the surface right and to have the right temperature, sun and wind for painting.

The world does not have a good tolerant corrosion protection coating that will last 10 years any more. 2 pack epoxy is probably the best for an SA2.5 surface. Maybe in the next 5 years or so, zinga will emerge as the best solution. I cant see any evidence at the moment that any one system is better than another except we know 2 pack epoxies do work.

So does zinga Bob, it sticks really well I had my front deck blasted, I painted it with zinga then zinga black, then satin black with sand, it is in extremely good condition no chips no rust nothing, it gives me an insight to what is happening below. I also zingered the weed hatch so its the work of seconds to inspect that as well. My two bits of steel that I dangled in the cut, one with zinga and zinga black, the other just zinga, are perfik! or were when I last saw them the rope rotted and they have gone!!

[Fly Navy]

So can someone who has had it hand painted after grit blasting - with Zinger/Zinka....tell me the costs please?

 

Thanks in advance

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, Fly Navy said:

So can someone who has had it hand painted after grit blasting - with Zinger/Zinka....tell me the costs please?

 

Thanks in advance

I know it sounds daft but not really I sprayed mine it gives a better even covering and it goes further, grit blasting in some areas is cheap in others its a fortune. budget for 600 squids for materials and you wont be far out

[ditchcrawler]

41 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I know it sounds daft but not really I sprayed mine it gives a better even covering and it goes further, grit blasting in some areas is cheap in others its a fortune. budget for 600 squids for materials and you wont be far out

Did you use airless spray for that

[Dr Bob]

48 minutes ago, peterboat said:

budget for 600 squids for ......

There were these 2 fish in a tank..........