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60ft widebeam on the L&L?


leeco

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The short L&LC locks are suitable for boats 62 feet long, and we don't have too many problems with Kennet at 14 feet 3 ins wide, though it can sometimes be a squeeze getting into/out of locks if there is anything behind the gate. For the C&HN, the locks are 57 feet 6 ins, so you could not access them, so a round trip across the Pennines via the Rochdale would be impossible. Personally, I think the wide narrow boat design very ugly, and not the best use of space. The bluff bow and stern of a traditional northern wide boat is much better, and allows full use of the whole length of the boat. The counterless stern is also much better when it comes to clearing the prop, though you do have to be a it more careful in handling the boat.

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Just now, Col_T said:

Curious as to why anyone would want to buy a sail away located in Shepperton and then take it to the L & L - surely better to buy more locally in the first place?

It's available now, and they've sold their house, tempus fugit.

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9 hours ago, leeco said:

All I really wanted to know is can you travel the L&L on a 60ft widebeam and maybe some places I could buy a decent sail away if not.

Are you on Facebook, if so ask on the Wigan Flight page. I have done it on a 57 foot narrowboat sharing with a longer one so I would THINK you could but you will get very wet with water coming over or through the gates

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Isn't it a given that the ideal boat will always be at the other end of the country?  

Pluto, which side of the Pennines are you on, and are you saying that one can get from one side to the other with a 62' wide beam?  I'm also curious as to what "a traditional northern wide boat" looks like; would you have a link?  I don't way to hijack this thread but, soon to be in the market for a wide beam home, many of the replies here have been very interesting.  I've been looking at 60+' x 12', based on the eastern side, and we want to cruise as much as possible.   

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10 hours ago, leeco said:

All I really wanted to know is can you travel the L&L on a 60ft widebeam and maybe some places I could buy a decent sail away if not.

Perhaps someone has already answered this but I would not think that you would get through the Bingley staircases.  You can do it in a 60ft narrow boat because you can fit the bow or stern into the angle between the top gates and the wall.  A wide boat needs the full clear length.

 

Nick

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1 hour ago, Theo said:

Perhaps someone has already answered this but I would not think that you would get through the Bingley staircases.  You can do it in a 60ft narrow boat because you can fit the bow or stern into the angle between the top gates and the wall.  A wide boat needs the full clear length.

 

Nick

According to my ancient Nicholsons, maximum dimensions from Wigan to Leeds is 60 foot long, 14 foot 3 inches wide, while on the Rufford branch the max length is 62 foot.

I have always been under the impression that you could get a 62 foot boat all the way along - I suppose it actually depends on the lock dimensions.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
Edited as originally incorrect!
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Someone had better contact CRT if they think this boat couldn't cruise from Liverpool to Market Harborough. Published dimensions are to be read in combination are they not? Hence you can in some circumstances pass a boat that is longer than published if it is narrower. (Actually you can routinely pass boats that are both longer and wider than the published dimensions through many locks).

 

I reckon it would have about 500 miles of cruising range and access to three of the six largest cities in England.

 

What am I missing that others know?

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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Surprisingly, Leeds and Liverpool "short boats" which were built to traverse the L&L were built to 62' X 14'. I have been over from Wigan to Leeds and back on one of these without too much trouble. Last year one even did the full route with a load on. so a 60' X 12' should have no problems. I'd agree that the traditional shape is better for these canals as the front deck doesn't mind getting wet and the prop is easier to get at when it isn't under a counter. Even with a weed hatch you could need long arms if the boat draws anything like a wide boat should.

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Leeco, how physically fit are your parents?

Would they be able to work a boat in 5(?) years?

I trust father is not a walking heart-attack.

Living on a boat full time will attract more expense than a holiday boat, council tax for one on a residential mooring, or moving on in all weather if CCing. 

Would Universal Credit be payable to a boater?

 

Bod

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2 hours ago, captain birdseye said:

Surprisingly, Leeds and Liverpool "short boats" which were built to traverse the L&L were built to 62' X 14'. I have been over from Wigan to Leeds and back on one of these without too much trouble. Last year one even did the full route with a load on. so a 60' X 12' should have no problems. I'd agree that the traditional shape is better for these canals as the front deck doesn't mind getting wet and the prop is easier to get at when it isn't under a counter. Even with a weed hatch you could need long arms if the boat draws anything like a wide boat should.

Their is no problem at all clearing the prop on a widebeam honestly its the easiest thing in the world even with a tyre on it!!! however over the counter on a short boat I have no idea how you would get that steel reinforced tyre off!!?

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9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Their is no problem at all clearing the prop on a widebeam honestly its the easiest thing in the world even with a tyre on it!!! however over the counter on a short boat I have no idea how you would get that steel reinforced tyre off!!?

I remember an ex member, Biggles  changing the prop on his wide beam through the weed hatch, It was like a swimming pool.

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Hi 

We have a 57ft narrowboat and as we are based on the Calder & Hebble, I would say the widebeam will fit in most locks at a push up to the Salterhebble 3 then you would have to turn back.

 

Wish them good luck, its a good life just takes a bit of thought and lots of planning!

 

 

Edited by RonnieF1967
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3 hours ago, Bod said:

Leeco, how physically fit are your parents?

Would they be able to work a boat in 5(?) years?

I trust father is not a walking heart-attack.

Living on a boat full time will attract more expense than a holiday boat, council tax for one on a residential mooring, or moving on in all weather if CCing. 

Would Universal Credit be payable to a boater?

 

Bod

Well I'm seventy this year with angina and I certainly hope to be still boating in five years... 

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6 hours ago, David Lorimer said:

Isn't it a given that the ideal boat will always be at the other end of the country?  

Pluto, which side of the Pennines are you on, and are you saying that one can get from one side to the other with a 62' wide beam?  I'm also curious as to what "a traditional northern wide boat" looks like; would you have a link?  I don't way to hijack this thread but, soon to be in the market for a wide beam home, many of the replies here have been very interesting.  I've been looking at 60+' x 12', based on the eastern side, and we want to cruise as much as possible.   

The official dimensions for boats were 61 feet by 14 feet 4 inches, though the length was over the stem and stern posts, so extra could be allowed for the rudder and fenders.The locks on the Leigh branch and from Wigan to Liverpool take 72 feet boats, with Liverpool locks being slightly longer. The two photos are of Kennet before 'improvement' in 2011/2012. On the wooden boats, the prop was even further back and fitted behind the stern post. The bow held the cabin on motor boats, while there were cabins at both ends on horse boats. The actual shape of the bow and stern varied greatly from yard to yard, and after motors were introduced there was always a good run to the propellor so that they were easy to handle.

Kennet stern.jpg

Kennet bow.jpg

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17 hours ago, leeco said:

A little bit more information my parents are mortgage free so rent isn’t a issue and fostered children for years and developed several properties along the years but decided to pack it in recently and go on universal credit and believe it or not it wouldn’t be long before they were going to food banks. 

If your parents have just sold their house it is difficult to see how they would qualify for universal credit or would need to go to food banks. Something fishy here.

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42 minutes ago, Pluto said:

The official dimensions for boats were 61 feet by 14 feet 4 inches, though the length was over the stem and stern posts, so extra could be allowed for the rudder and fenders.The locks on the Leigh branch and from Wigan to Liverpool take 72 feet boats, with Liverpool locks being slightly longer. The two photos are of Kennet before 'improvement' in 2011/2012. On the wooden boats, the prop was even further back and fitted behind the stern post. The bow held the cabin on motor boats, while there were cabins at both ends on horse boats. The actual shape of the bow and stern varied greatly from yard to yard, and after motors were introduced there was always a good run to the propellor so that they were easy to handle.

Kennet stern.jpg

Kennet bow.jpg

Didnt they swing the rudder 90 deg so no extra length

24 minutes ago, PaulD said:

If your parents have just sold their house it is difficult to see how they would qualify for universal credit or would need to go to food banks. Something fishy here.

I think that may be why they sold the house, release equity to live

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7 hours ago, David Lorimer said:

Isn't it a given that the ideal boat will always be at the other end of the country?  

Pluto, which side of the Pennines are you on, and are you saying that one can get from one side to the other with a 62' wide beam?  I'm also curious as to what "a traditional northern wide boat" looks like; would you have a link?  I don't way to hijack this thread but, soon to be in the market for a wide beam home, many of the replies here have been very interesting.  I've been looking at 60+' x 12', based on the eastern side, and we want to cruise as much as possible.   

If you want to cruise as much as possible, why buy a great big widebeam datebox? buy a proper boat................

Edited by LadyG
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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

If you want to cruise as much as possible, why buy a great big widebeam?

Because its a much nicer place to live inside, unless you have lived in both like mrsmelly and myself, you have no idea how pleasant a widebeam is in comparison to a narrowboat

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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If you want to cruise as much as possible, why buy a great big widebeam datebox? buy a proper boat................

I thought they wanted somewhere to live on the L&L because they have sold their house. I would take great care on the VAT part of the deal and make sure that HMRC don't chase Mum and Dad for unpaid VAT

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17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Didnt they swing the rudder 90 deg so no extra length

I think that may be why they sold the house, release equity to live

The rudder does stick out a bit further than the stern post, and the tiller can hit the lock side if it is long enough, as it was on some boats. You also need to get the rudder a bit more in line when setting off after the water level has evened out, and all locks seem to have the extra length required. However, as with all locks, you do need to keep your eye on what is happening.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

I think that may be why they sold the house, release equity to live

Unlikely.

Well, I don't know about current government handouts, I only got them once when I was unable to work as I had a mental illness. According to the Govt I was fine, so they stopped my £70.00 per week allowance.

I asked about what would happen if I sold my house rather than get in to debt: that would be "making myself homeless"

 When I had nowhere to live I had to live in a wood for three weeks, in a tent.

People need to be very "savvy" to get anything out of the benefit system. The only people I know who "manage", are milking the system, and lying.

I'm still paying off debts, fifteen years down the line.

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

If you want to cruise as much as possible, why buy a great big widebeam datebox? buy a proper boat................

I like your description and I should have said "...cruise as much as possible in a widebeam datebox" ?  If by "proper boat" you mean a narrowboat, well, we have a 57' one but for year-round living we could do with a bit more elbow room and storage space.  

Edited by David Lorimer
typo
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