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60ft widebeam on the L&L?


leeco

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My parents have just sold their house and are thinking of buying a boat. They have been to view this boat 

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254114472768

 

The guy that is selling it said you wouldn’t fit these 60ft boats on the L&L and he could make a 58ft one but would have to add VAT or something.

 

This is the first place they’ve visited and told them not to rush into anything and I’ll research stuff for them so any help would be greatly appreciate 

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Why are they buying a boat?

If it is to live on then a widebeam is good.

If it is to navigate rivers and wide canals then a widebeam is good.

If it is to navigate on normal canals and get from the south to the north then a widebeam is NOT the answer. They will not go north to south or south to north. It is too narrow. YOu will not get from London to the LL on a widebeam without coastal sailing.

A lot of the so called wide canals are just not wide enough.

 

I would advise them buying a proper boat first ...ie one that is fitted out. They will not be able to make decisions on the fit out as they will not know.

I would advise buying a 2nd hand boat as it will have far less problems than a new boat. Yes, we bought a £140K new boat and the snagging list took 3 years to sort out, and that was never done properly. Buy a used boat then if your not happy buy a new one after a few years when you know what is needed.

 

Edited by Dr Bob
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8 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Why are they buying a boat?

If it is to live on then a widebeam is good.

If it is to navigate rivers and wide canals then a widebeam is good.

If it is to navigate on normal canals and get from the south to the north then a widebeam is NOT the answer. They will not go north to south or south to north. It is too narrow. YOu will not get from London to the LL on a widebeam without coastal sailing.

A lot of the so called wide canals are just not wide enough.

 

I would advise them buying a proper boat first ...ie one that is fitted out. They will not be able to make decisions on the fit out as they will not know.

I would advise buying a 2nd hand boat as it will have far less problems than a new boat. Yes, we bought a £140K new boat and the snagging list took 3 years to sort out, and that was never done properly. Buy as used boat then if your not happy buy a new one after a few years when you know what is needed.

I’ve had a narrow boat for years and they just want to get away from bricks and mortar.. Dads was a property developer so fitting one out is no issue for him as I’m multi skilled in different trades and so his he. He’s just wanting to cruise the L&L and I was sure you could do it in a 60ft.

 

The reason he’s wanting to live on a boat is because he’s getting too old to be building extensions these days and sick of paying the bills to live in a house these days as I know living on a boat is peanuts compared to a house.

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10 minutes ago, leeco said:

I’ve had a narrow boat for years and they just want to get away from bricks and mortar.. Dads was a property developer so fitting one out is no issue for him as I’m multi skilled in different trades and so his he. He’s just wanting to cruise the L&L and I was sure you could do it in a 60ft.

 

The reason he’s wanting to live on a boat is because he’s getting too old to be building extensions these days and sick of paying the bills to live in a house these days as I know living on a boat is peanuts compared to a house.

Living on a boat is certainly not peanuts, compared to owning a house it actually works out a lot more expensive, and its not the easiest life, especially as you get older, but it is lovely for those who like boats.

I cant help with the L&L as we are much too long, but from what I have read a 60 foot wide either won't fit or will be exceedingly difficult, though the bit going in to Liverpool is fine (Wigan to Liverpool).  The L&L looks to be quite a lot of nasty urban bits and a few wonderful Pennine bits. I think choosing a boat involves a whole lot more than a desire to cruise one particular waterway.

 

...............Dave

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I can remember a conversation with a lumpy water boat skipper in Kilmore Quay after finishing the 'round Ireland race' saying the last 48 hrs was like standing in a shower ripping up £10 notes. Narrowboats are not quite as expensive but the word peanuts is totally the wrong word.

 

Fitting out a boat is not like fitting out a house. 

Edited by Dr Bob
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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Living on a boat is certainly not peanuts, compared to owning a house it actually works out a lot more expensive, and its not the easiest life, especially as you get older, but it is lovely for those who like boats.

I cant help with the L&L as we are much too long, but from what I have read a 60 foot wide either won't fit or will be exceedingly difficult, though the bit going in to Liverpool is fine (Wigan to Liverpool).  The L&L looks to be quite a lot of nasty urban bits and a few wonderful Pennine bits. I think choosing a boat involves a whole lot more than a desire to cruise one particular waterway.

 

...............Dave

I don’t live on my boat but it costs me £90 a year insurance and around £90 a month license. I get free power as I have a decent solar setup free water no council tax etc

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leeco, may I offer a few observations based on our own ongoing research?  

I'm assuming, since you've mentioned the Leeds & Liverpool, that your folks are looking at the Northern wide-beam canals, not those in the South.  If correct:

A 60' x 12' boat will confine your parents to cruising either East or West of the Pennines.  East provides more miles of waterways.  

A 60' x 12' boat is the minimum size they can buy without paying 20% VAT. 

I agree with Dr Bob regarding buying a fitted out pre-owned boat first and hopefully the previous owners will have ironed out most of the glitches.  Even if your parents have some experience on  hire boats, living on board is definitely different and the learning curve involved with taking on a sailaway would be pretty steep.  

I'd even go as far as to suggest a slightly different course, i.e. of putting in storage whatever they think they'd need on a wide beam, and buying a narrowboat.  Use it and cruise it for a year, learn the maintenance, talk to wide-beamers and everyone else and listen, listen, listen.  

For the record, we have a 57' narrowboat near Braunston which we live on and cruise for three to five months a year.  Like your parents, though, we're selling the house and looking for a wide-beam.  Having the narrowboat to live on while we look, gives us the luxury of time.  

Good luck to them, and patience!

 

 

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1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

I can remember a conversation with a lumpy water boat skipper in Kilmore Quay after finishing the 'round Ireland race' saying the last 48 hrs was like standing in a shower ripping up £10 notes. Narrowboats are not quite as expensive but the word peanuts is totally the wrong word.

 

Fitting out a boat is not like fitting out a house. 

I know it’s not as I’ve fitted a couple out but for this boat he’d probably spend £15k+ into a fit out 

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A little bit more information my parents are mortgage free so rent isn’t a issue and fostered children for years and developed several properties along the years but decided to pack it in recently and go on universal credit and believe it or not it wouldn’t be long before they were going to food banks. 

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5 minutes ago, leeco said:

I don’t live on my boat but it costs me £90 a year insurance and around £90 a month license. I get free power as I have a decent solar setup free water no council tax etc

You obviously don't live on the boat Oct - Mar unless you are in 'camping' mode. There is not enough solar in winter for decent charging unless you have big panels on the roof. Good to hear you don't pay much for coal to heat the boat in winter.

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8 minutes ago, leeco said:

I don’t live on my boat but it costs me £90 a year insurance and around £90 a month license. I get free power as I have a decent solar setup free water no council tax etc

Yeah, I lived in an old Victorian house for many years, no licence but the insurance was about £600 a year due to spectacular subsidence, but it was the maintenance that cost the most,  same on the boat :) 

 

..............Dave

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Just now, Dr Bob said:

You obviously don't live on the boat Oct - Mar unless you are in 'camping' mode. There is not enough solar in winter for decent charging unless you have big panels on the roof. Good to hear you don't pay much for coal to heat the boat in winter.

I don’t use it much in the winter but a 1000w does charge up some days when I go down and I find logs to burn when I use it.

1 minute ago, dmr said:

Yeah, I lived in an old Victorian house for many years, no licence but the insurance was about £600 a year due to spectacular subsidence, but it was the maintenance that cost the most,  same on the boat :) 

 

..............Dave

? I know maintenance I’ve just had to renew my batteries at £600 and replace my solar panels some scum stole last year ?

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36 minutes ago, leeco said:

I’ve had a narrow boat for years and they just want to get away from bricks and mortar.. Dads was a property developer so fitting one out is no issue for him as I’m multi skilled in different trades and so his he. He’s just wanting to cruise the L&L and I was sure you could do it in a 60ft.

Sorry, but fitting out a boat is nothing like doing the same in bricks and mortar!

36 minutes ago, leeco said:

The reason he’s wanting to live on a boat is because he’s getting too old to be building extensions these days and sick of paying the bills to live in a house these days as I know living on a boat is peanuts compared to a house.

And pigs might fly!!
Plenty of people on here can very quickly prove that that is incorrect.

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6 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Sorry, but fitting out a boat is nothing like doing the same in bricks and mortar!

And pigs might fly!!
Plenty of people on here can very quickly prove that that is incorrect.

I’m a highly skilled joiner and sparky and I’m very capable of fitting a boat out to a very high standard and I know boats can have hidden charges but I’ve not seen this in the times I’ve had mine for 9 years. I’m talking a brand new boat with everything new.

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I'll agree with Graham Davis that fitting out a boat is nothing like bricks and mortar but if, as leeco says, his dad was a property developer, the basics - plumbing, electrics, heating - should not be rocket science.  Peanuts, though?  I'd like to know where to get those insurance and license rates, and where I can moor for zero.  

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3 minutes ago, David Lorimer said:

I'll agree with Graham Davis that fitting out a boat is nothing like bricks and mortar but if, as leeco says, his dad was a property developer, the basics - plumbing, electrics, heating - should not be rocket science.  Peanuts, though?  I'd like to know where to get those insurance and license rates, and where I can moor for zero.  

I know building property is totally different as it’s a lot harder and you have to build the regulations etc. Like I’ve said I’ve fitted boats out. I’ve just insured my narrow boat for £90 a year and pay £90 I think for my license. I just try move it around every 2 weeks and been doing that for years 

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27 minutes ago, leeco said:

All I really wanted to know is can you travel the L&L on a 60ft widebeam and maybe some places I could buy a decent sail away if not.

I mostly live on the L&L, and I think a 60x12 is the perfect size for this canal and the rivers.

 

The canal from Wigan to Leeds was built for 62x14 short boats, but lock gates sticking make that size hard work ... Ask @DRP how hard work it can be.

 

 

It's too wide for the narrow bit of the Rochdale and it's too long for a widebeam to do the Calder & Hebble.

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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I mostly live on the L&L, and I think a 60x12 is the perfect size for this canal and the rivers.

 

The canal from Wigan to Leeds was built for 62x14 short boats, but lock gates sticking make that size hard work ... Ask @DRP how hard work it can be.

 

 

It's too wide for the narrow bit of the Rochdale and it's too long for a widebeam to do the Calder & Hebble.

Cheers ?

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4 hours ago, leeco said:

I don’t live on my boat but it costs me £90 a year insurance and around £90 a month license. I get free power as I have a decent solar setup free water no council tax etc

a] A big fatboat is going to cost more than that in Licence fees, and in insurance.

b] Water is not "free", nothing is free.

Edited by LadyG
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This is the strangest thread so far this year. They can buy a low maintenance flat: I have one for sale. It will cost less than a boat per annum.

"Universal Credit" is not something I can "claim", nor would I want to, nor would I sell a house and trot down to a food bank, I occasionally contribute to the food bank, it's not for people who are just a bit tired of living in a house. The government want folks to work till they are sixty-eight, that is 'cos they consider there are too many people scrounging off the state rather than working for a living. I think they have a point.

Edited by LadyG
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3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

The L/L is the best place for it but they are going to get mighty bored and frustrated going up and down the same length of canal for ever while everyone else can whizz off to other places.

it's not the best place as far as I am  concerned as I hope to be cruising in that area myself, and I don't want anyone else whizzing up and down, the fewer the better as far as I am concerned, so I don't have to queue to get any of this free water, it'll be like Black Friday and New Year sales combined. ?

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10 hours ago, leeco said:

My parents have just sold their house and are thinking of buying a boat. They have been to view this boat 

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254114472768

 

The guy that is selling it said you wouldn’t fit these 60ft boats on the L&L and he could make a 58ft one but would have to add VAT or something.

 

This is the first place they’ve visited and told them not to rush into anything and I’ll research stuff for them so any help would be greatly appreciate 

It will be fine My boat including fenders is close to that size, on the eastern end you will be able to get as far south as Sheffield  or Nottingham via the trent up to York along to Goole and I am fairly certain Boston, should kep them occupied for many a year

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