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Jon Cartwright

Constant cruising

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4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

For me a route is what you use to get to a destination and Bonafide genuine without the intention to deceive.   So for me bonafide navigation isn't hanging around in as small an area as you can possibly get away with.  Few people I know would suggest that when they set off to go 10 miles or so they had accurately ascertained their position and planned a route to a destination.  Perhaps if you were desperate to twist the definitions you might but I doubt the "man on the Clapham omnibus" would.

Sounds fair to me.

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20 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

This is quite interesting. I have cced many many times over the last thirty years of living aboard and at other times taken a mooring depending on work etc. I have absolutely never spent 14 days on any mooring, I like cruising too much so at worst stay a couple of days before moving on. If I were working in one area and staying in one spot 14 days that would be as bad as having a full time mooring. We cced all last year to include many different canals and rivers because  we can,  but otherwise the benefits of having a mooring and coming and going as you please outweigh the costs involved. The last time we worked and cced we moved every 7 days anyway for water but that did my head in being so long on one spot all be it with miles inbetween each mooring. It takes all kinds I suppose.

I work reasonable hours so through the week it's a ball ache to move, head torches in the dark on double width locks. Faff.

Then a lot of weekends I'm away mountain biking, rock climbing or something else. So In two weeks I don't get much time on the boat in each place.

Water wise I can manage about 5 weeks on 500 litres. If I'm far from a water point and run out mid week, I will work out if it's time effective to move the boat or carry in water (I have 6 x 25 litre cuboid containers, carrying them in is a murderous affair if I'm honest, but is good exercise for the biking!)

 

Each time I move on from a spot after the two weeks, I'm always a bit sad to leave, but then arrive at a lovely new spot that has its own charms! 

 

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

CRT ...........  So long as you're moving about every couple of weeks and generally not bothering people - they're happy.  Why other boaters adopt this superior position over what others are doing still completely escapes me.

I do not think you should feel 'inferior' here. Are other boaters taking a 'superior' position over CC'ers who follow the rules? I dont think they are. I certainly am not. CC'ing is part of the canal history and long may it stay. I think most (all?) on here feel that way.

I think your final comment is confusing CC'ers who follow the rules and CC'ers who dont. If someone doesnt follow the rules then they can certainly expect some criticism - although no one is superior over anyone else.

What do you feel about CC'ers who dont follow the rules? For me it's not significant issue to get wound up about. I'd prefer they didnt break the rules as the more people who break the rules, the more the rule makers will strive to impose further restrictions or penalties....but I dont loose any sleep over it. There's plenty of room for everyone....except in London.

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1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

I do not think you should feel 'inferior' here. Are other boaters taking a 'superior' position over CC'ers who follow the rules? I dont think they are. I certainly am not. CC'ing is part of the canal history and long may it stay. I think most (all?) on here feel that way.

I think your final comment is confusing CC'ers who follow the rules and CC'ers who dont. If someone doesnt follow the rules then they can certainly expect some criticism - although no one is superior over anyone else.

What do you feel about CC'ers who dont follow the rules? For me it's not significant issue to get wound up about. I'd prefer they didnt break the rules as the more people who break the rules, the more the rule makers will strive to impose further restrictions or penalties....but I dont loose any sleep over it. There's plenty of room for everyone....except in London.

Yep, spot on. At present we have very few, very easy to comply with rules but theres nowt surer than the pee takers will eventualy ruin it for everyone else.

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yep, spot on. At present we have very few, very easy to comply with rules but theres nowt surer than the pee takers will eventualy ruin it for everyone else.

How many places couldn't you moor on the Thames 5 years ago

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If everyone moved several miles every fortnight, you would have queues at every lock and winding hole.  Is that what you want?

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2 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

If everyone moved several miles every fortnight, you would have queues at every lock and winding hole.  Is that what you want?

That is one way of looking at it

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8 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

If everyone moved several miles every fortnight, you would have queues at every lock and winding hole.  Is that what you want?

Ridiculous

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5 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Ridiculous

It is NOT ridiculous at all.

When BW wanted to bring stricter and further movement and shorter mooring periods to the Lee and Stort, the London Boaters did quite a lot of research - and invoved the EA and Lee Valley Conservators - something BW hadnt done when creating their plan.

It was proven that the new plan would severely affect water levels in most months, negatively affect water quality, ruin stocked fishing pounds and create problems for rowing clubs. 

 

You must remember this was in 2011 - there are another 2000 boats down there now.

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But that's a local issue; and something of an anomoly - the situation in London; or on the Lee and Stort is not typically reflected nationally.

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23 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It is NOT ridiculous at all.

When BW wanted to bring stricter and further movement and shorter mooring periods to the Lee and Stort, the London Boaters did quite a lot of research - and invoved the EA and Lee Valley Conservators - something BW hadnt done when creating their plan.

It was proven that the new plan would severely affect water levels in most months, negatively affect water quality, ruin stocked fishing pounds and create problems for rowing clubs. 

 

You must remember this was in 2011 - there are another 2000 boats down there now.

If the infra structure can't cope with the number of boats then some method has to be found to reduce the problem.  Say charges like a congestion charge etc.

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19 minutes ago, Paul C said:

But that's a local issue; and something of an anomoly - the situation in London; or on the Lee and Stort is not typically reflected nationally.

Wrong again, it was Sally Ash's pet baby and it was planned to widen the proposals to the rest of London and then Nationwide. 

It was only after 3 months of research, local consultations done by boaters groups and shared user meetings that BW withdrew the lot as the proposals were so shambolic.

 

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I know but it just doesn't seem like a watertight defence to not complying with the CCing rules. If there is a wider issue to overcrowding, then the answer isn't just keep letting more boats onto the canals but just let them moor up semi-permanently until all the gaps are full; it would be to come up with a more holistic plan/solution. Of course, CRT have no choice because of the current, some say outdated, legislation. 

 

Also worth saying that the vast majority of CRT's network ISN'T in London and doesn't suffer from overcrowding. Yes there's other hotspots, but the London situation is somewhat different to the rest of the network and it would be false to approach them all with the same strategy.

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15 hours ago, Paul C said:

Ridiculous

Ridiculous indeed! The only time I ever encounter queues is in the summer weekends when all the holiday boats come out of the marinas! 

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I obviously stand corrected.  Not having had a boat since 1975, I am glad to know that the queueing situation has not got worse. 

Which goes to show that the majority of the vastly increased number of boats seldom actually go anywhere.

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19 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

How many places couldn't you moor on the Thames 5 years ago

Historically, most Thames riparian owners were very jealous of their privacy, and places where the general public could land, let alone moor, was maybe at least, if not more, restrictive than now; lawsuits in the 19thC set the common law of England very firmly against the Justinian Civil Law precept that access to the banks of public navigable rivers was freely available to all.

 

The Thames Conservancy Act of 1932 gave the Authority certain powers to control the time and manner of use of public landing places, though protecting free overnight use of them.

 

In 1910, according to Thacker, only just over two dozen of such public landing places existed on the upper Thames. It might be an interesting question as to what landing/mooring rights along recognised public towpath could be considered to similarly exist, and so fall under the same definition.

 

The riparian boroughs are, of course, bringing in greater, more formal restrictions through use of byelaws, re: mooring to their quasi-private riversides.

Thackerey List of public landing places 1910.jpg

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19 hours ago, Chris Williams said:

I obviously stand corrected.  Not having had a boat since 1975, I am glad to know that the queueing situation has not got worse. 

Which goes to show that the majority of the vastly increased number of boats seldom actually go anywhere.

I don't think they do often go anywhere...or not as far as they used to. Can honestly say I don't think I have been in a real queue for a lock for about 3 years, and the last 2 years I have been living aboard and cc'ing!

Would be interesting to know if, whilst boat numbers may have increased, the average lock mileage per boat has gone up or down. Doubt the figures exist though 

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7 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

 

Would be interesting to know if, whilst boat numbers may have increased, the average lock mileage per boat has gone up or down. Doubt the figures exist though 

CRT's Lockage Report  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/specialist-teams/managing-our-water/annual-lockage-report gives comparative data on total boat movements 2016-18.

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1 hour ago, Dave123 said:

I don't think they do often go anywhere...or not as far as they used to. Can honestly say I don't think I have been in a real queue for a lock for about 3 years, and the last 2 years I have been living aboard and cc'ing!

Would be interesting to know if, whilst boat numbers may have increased, the average lock mileage per boat has gone up or down. Doubt the figures exist though 

What do you consider a queue?

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

What do you consider a queue?

We waited 3 hrs to get down through a lock on the Napton flight last summer and there were at least 12 boats waiting to come up. One broken paddle and the other one not fully working.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

What do you consider a queue?

More than one boat waiting to go through a narrow lock, or two small boats.

More than 10 waiting for a Thames lock, depending on size of boat.

In the summer of 1975, it was common to be queueing for a Thames lock, and I no longer had priority as a commercial craft, even though I had to pay tolls by load.

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Yes the Thames can have big queues...but spent most of the summer there and on the K&A as far as Devizes and none at all. I'd say a queue would be not being the next boat to use the lock once it is set...if that makes sense!

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4 hours ago, David Mack said:

CRT's Lockage Report  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/specialist-teams/managing-our-water/annual-lockage-report gives comparative data on total boat movements 2016-18.

But no way to tell if this is a lot more boats travelling shorter distances? I read a very interesting article in one of the canal magazines last year by a boater returning to the Great Ouse after a decade or so away from it. He was of the opinion (and so were the local boat yards) that the trend in boating had shifted from small GRP cruisers which people would use to cover the most mileage possible and get to as many pubs as possible in their weekend on the water, to steel narrowboats with all mod cons used more as floating cottages. Just one point of view of course...

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14 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

the trend in boating had shifted from small GRP cruisers which people would use to cover the most mileage possible and get to as many pubs as possible in their weekend on the water, to steel narrowboats with all mod cons used more as floating cottages. Just one point of view of course...

My point of view too.  The weekend cottage that doesn't move.

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27 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

 the trend in boating had shifted from small GRP cruisers which people would use to cover the most mileage possible and get to as many pubs as possible in their weekend on the water, to steel narrowboats with all mod cons used more as floating cottages.

At  Farndon the change over the last 10 years is the cruisers are getting bigger.

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