Constant cruising

[Naughty Cal]

8 hours ago, Paul C said:

Do you know one single household in the UK where someone has an uncluttered, empty garage, with nothing in it?

How many boats do you know that can fit in a garage and be used to live aboard?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

How many boats do you know that can fit in a garage and be used to live aboard?

Not quite following the thinking on that :

 

If you live aboard a boat you are probably unlikely to have (or need) a garage.

If you did have a garage, why would you want to live in a boat, inside the garage ?

 

By far, the vast majority of boats are not liveaboards, and, I would hazard a guess that the majority of liveaboards do not claim a licence under section 17(3)(c)(I) but section 17(3)(c)(ii)

 

[Paul C]

It was tongue-in-cheek. I nearly put a note on the original post, explaining this, but I didn't think I would need to (so didn't go back to edit). I did suspect there would be one or two who didn't "get it" though!

 

Never mind.

[Tacet]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have a place where my boat can be reasonably kept' in my yard at home.

The space is always available and it could 'lawfully be kept there' - why would you suggest that me not using it means it could not be reasonably kept there ?

 

The Act specifically states "...may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere..."

I didn't make any suggestion about you at all,

 

It rather depends on the surrounding circumstances.  But if, again in extremis,  one's lawful keeping place is a never-used mate's garden in Aberdeen - and the boat is large heavy vessel, it might well bear upon the "reasonable" in the "can reasonably be kept" element of the Act.

 

 

[system 4-50]

Hmmm.  There is just room for my 60ft NB down the side of my house...

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Tacet said:

I didn't make any suggestion about you at all,

I said "I" as in "any one who has a space in their yard ……………"

 

14 minutes ago, Tacet said:

It rather depends on the surrounding circumstances.  But if, again in extremis,  one's lawful keeping place is a never-used mate's garden in Aberdeen - and the boat is large heavy vessel, it might well bear upon the "reasonable" in the "can reasonably be kept" element of the Act.

Don't get blinkered by Gurt heavy 70 foot long steel sewer tubes.

There are 1000's of boats under 40 foot that can be lifted by a truck with a Hiab and dropped off in "your" garden.

 

The legislation does not differentiate and I guess it would come down to a court to say if  "you" were complying, but (whilst it is not binding as it was a lower court) HHJ Halbert's suggestion was if you had a place to keep it, then you didn't need to keep it there - ever.

 

Launching my 7 tonne GRP (on its trailer)

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Captain Pegg]

45 minutes ago, Tacet said:

I didn't make any suggestion about you at all,

 

It rather depends on the surrounding circumstances.  But if, again in extremis,  one's lawful keeping place is a never-used mate's garden in Aberdeen - and the boat is large heavy vessel, it might well bear upon the "reasonable" in the "can reasonably be kept" element of the Act.

 

 

Don't worry about Alan; he's always keen to show us how many boats he has got.

 

It is about circumstances. One thing that features in the judgment linked above and in others is that the purpose of use of a boat is a key factor. By extension of the same logic there is a potential argument that if a liveaboard boater required their boat to be moored within commutable distance of their workplace but the home mooring was too remote for that purpose then the boat cannot reasonably be kept on the home mooring as it does not meet the needs of the purpose of use of the boat.

 

Such an eventuality may not be on the radar at present but I can see it being so at some point in the future.

 

JP

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Captain Pegg

[plainsman]

A lot of energy and sometimes emotion are spent on this subject. Why all the fuss? We should accept that it costs a certain amount to maintain and manage the system (wether that's' done efficiently is another matter), and one source of income is from licenses/mooring fees charged to users. The shortfall created by those who do not pay the due fee is picked up by the rest who accept their responsibilities and pay up.  May not seem fair but that is the way of the world Is it really worth the effort and anguish to try to exploit weaknesses in the rules?

 

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Don't worry about Alan; he's always keen to show us how many boats he has got.

I like to see how many boats he's got! I like nice boats, so if folk are chuffed enough with their boats to want to show them off, I don't mind how many they have. Vulpes is rather nice too JP, so feel free to show her off whenever you like too.

 

[Captain Pegg]

35 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I like to see how many boats he's got! I like nice boats, so if folk are chuffed enough with their boats to want to show them off, I don't mind how many they have. Vulpes is rather nice too JP, so feel free to show her off whenever you like too.

 

Vulpes will be at the St Richard's Festival in Droitwich over Mayday weekend. Hopefully under it's own power and with stage 1 of refit complete. You should drop by.

 

JP

Edited March 2, 2019 by Captain Pegg

[Sea Dog]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Vulpes will be at the St Richard's Festival in Droitwich over Mayday weekend. Hopefully under it's own power and with stage 1 of refit complete. You should drop by.

 

JP

We've been a few times, but unfortunately not this year as we'll be sailing to Brum for a concert otherwise I would have.  We did pass her in opposite directions once a while back (maybe 5 years or so) at that rather nice little lock a bit above Kidderminster - loved the lines; I'm sure she'll look resplendent post refit! 

 

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

We've been a few times, but unfortunately not this year as we'll be sailing to Brum for a concert otherwise I would have.  We did pass her in opposite directions once a while back (maybe 5 years or so) at that rather nice little lock a bit above Kidderminster - loved the lines; I'm sure she'll look resplendent post refit! 

 

Five years ago it wouldn't have been me at the helm. Looks fine outwardly, was repainted a few months ago. Engine and interior being attended to currently.

 

JP

[Chris Williams]

On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 08:28, Alan de Enfield said:

I said "I" as in "any one who has a space in their yard ……………"

 

Don't get blinkered by Gurt heavy 70 foot long steel sewer tubes.

There are 1000's of boats under 40 foot that can be lifted by a truck with a Hiab and dropped off in "your" garden.

 

The legislation does not differentiate and I guess it would come down to a court to say if  "you" were complying, but (whilst it is not binding as it was a lower court) HHJ Halbert's suggestion was if you had a place to keep it, then you didn't need to keep it there - ever.

 

Launching my 7 tonne GRP (on its trailer)

 

 

Put that in the Oxford Canal, and the flying bridge will be wrecked at the first bridge 'ole.  Don't think it would even get under Osney Bridge on the Thames.  Apart from that, it's a nice river boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Chris Williams said:

Put that in the Oxford Canal, and the flying bridge will be wrecked at the first bridge 'ole.  Don't think it would even get under Osney Bridge on the Thames.  Apart from that, it's a nice river boat.

She was - but - a bit too fast for Rivers.

We 'went to sea' and it was great. We could be across in Dublin in under 3 hours and spend the weekend there, similarly with the Isle of Man.

Went all the way up the UK west coast and around Scotland. 

Made a good liveaboard but we have got a bit bigger since then for additional 'comfort'.

[Nightwatch]

On 27/02/2019 at 13:41, Naughty Cal said:

You missed out continuous mooring.

And permanent leisure boater.

[Chris Williams]

52 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

She was - but - a bit too fast for Rivers.

We 'went to sea' and it was great. We could be across in Dublin in under 3 hours and spend the weekend there, similarly with the Isle of Man.

Went all the way up the UK west coast and around Scotland. 

Made a good liveaboard but we have got a bit bigger since then for additional 'comfort'.

Now you have made me jealous.

[Dave123]

On 25/02/2019 at 23:03, Dr Bob said:

CC'ing and having a permanent job are really mutually exclusive. You need to find a home mooring. You will mess it up for the rest of us. Home moorings are easy to find but will cost you. Living on a boat is not cheap.

Rubbish! It is very easy to do and cover more miles than many leisure boaters (not that this is even the point anyway)

[Murflynn]

3 hours ago, Dave123 said:

Rubbish! It is very easy to do and cover more miles than many leisure boaters

err .......  there is a slight difference between someone who has a boat on a mooring, and takes it for a trip, short or long, when the weather suits and the fancy takes them, and someone who is forced to make a journey regularly whatever the conditions just to comply evade which likely soon becomes a drudge if you have no real interest in boating.

[Mikexx]

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

err .......  there is a slight difference between someone who has a boat on a mooring, and takes it for a trip, short or long, when the weather suits and the fancy takes them, and someone who is forced to make a journey regularly whatever the conditions just to comply evade which likely soon becomes a drudge if you have no real interest in boating.

 

I presume you have a permanent mooring?

 

I was taught evasion and avoidance were entirely different forms of tax reduction, one illegal, one legal, though the old K2 tax avoidance schemes are attracting a lot of attention.

 

A lot of people have no interest in driving, but that doesn't stop them buying one and parking on the side of the road. There are places that only allow parking for a few hours, and in order for drivers to comply they have to move within that time. Or is that 'avoidance'?

[Chewbacka]

11 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

I presume you have a permanent mooring?

 

I was taught evasion and avoidance were entirely different forms of tax reduction, one illegal, one legal, though the old K2 tax avoidance schemes are attracting a lot of attention.

 

A lot of people have no interest in driving, but that doesn't stop them buying one and parking on the side of the road. There are places that only allow parking for a few hours, and in order for drivers to comply they have to move within that time. Or is that 'avoidance'?

Not avoidance but compliance 

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, Mikexx said:

 

I presume you have a permanent mooring?

 

 

you may presume whatever you wish.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

I was taught evasion and avoidance were entirely different forms of tax reduction, one illegal, one legal, though the old K2 tax avoidance schemes are attracting a lot of attention.

 

There's blatant evasion, completely legal avoidance and a blurry bit where they overlap. It's that blurry bit where, if you try to live in it, you have to decide whether the constant tension of never quite knowing if it's all going to go pear-shaped on you is worth it. 

[Chris Williams]

On ‎03‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 13:21, Alan de Enfield said:

We could be across in Dublin in under 3 hours

Just out of interest,  what was the cost in diesel, Dublin and back?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Just out of interest,  what was the cost in diesel, Dublin and back?

60 miles each way (Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire)

1.25 miles per gallon at 22knts

£1.36 per gallon (30p per litre)

 

 

Cost £130.50 

Would have been cheaper to take the ferry !!!

Edited March 4, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Chris Williams]

Thanks for that, Alan.  You could take the car as well!