Pubs to avoid ? (Apart from Woodenspoons) Are there any?

[Dr Bob]

4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Ahh well 1973 was the year all the best people were 18. I do hope you were not an " Underage " drinker? ? I was suprised to see the autovac system still in use and indeed promoted by at least one brewer in this day and age!!

My first was in 1966. I was on an ATC camp at an RAF base near Bury St Edmonds. Taken into the pub with the 'big' lads. Bought my first half with 11 1/2d. Cant remember how old I was (.......of course I could). God knows how they served me!

[Victor Vectis]

ish.........

I would hazard a guess that most of us posting on this thread were underage drinkers.

But we were underage drinkers in a controllled, adult environment. If we caused any trouble the licencee would have had us out on our ear 'oles in double quick time.

 

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

ish.........

I would hazard a guess that most of us posting on this thread were underage drinkers.

But we were underage drinkers in a controllled, adult environment. If we caused any trouble the licencee would have had us out on our ear 'oles in double quick time.

 

I wasnt an underage drinker ? I lived in a tiny village and the pub was across the road. All the parents in the village new every single child and their precise ages. My claim to fame I recall is getting away with going in for a pint the night before my eighteenth birthday and getting away with it lol. Bessie had been the landlady there since the 1940s and retired from it in the 80s. Of course by then it was decimal and a pint of bitter was 11 pence but we used to go to the wmc in the next village sometimes were it was 9 pence ? of course we were all daft enough to smoke in those days so the packet of ten number six or ten Embassy gold was another ten pence.

[Mac of Cygnet]

21 hours ago, Quaffer said:

I am aware of Autovacs but always considered their use as rather unfortunate,not hygenic and likely to compromise the quality of real ale.Surprisingly not "outlawed" by CAMRA,and not sure about the policy at Cask Marque.

 

I'm surprised Environmental Health haven't banned these.  The pub in the next village was using them until recently (landlord is from Yorkshire - I'd never seen them in Scotland).  Theoretically, they are OK if the staff are trained not to allow the beer to overflow their fingers before it enters the drip tray to be returned to the line, but this is often not the case. They should be banned.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

 

I'm surprised Environmental Health haven't banned these.  The pub in the next village was using them until recently (landlord is from Yorkshire - I'd never seen them in Scotland).  Theoretically, they are OK if the staff are trained not to allow the beer to overflow their fingers before it enters the drip tray to be returned to the line, but this is often not the case. They should be banned.

They have been used for millions and millions of pints for a very long time. Those of us who have used them have mostly thought they are not a good idea. Many older drinkers dont like a clean glass every time so not only does beer run over servers fingers into the tray to be drawn back up into the glass it also washes the glass in the process lol. As I said earlier my mate and many others over the years smoked at the back of the bar and yes it was always bad practice but hey who cared!! he would have his fag in his mouth and let the ash fall off the end into the recirculated beer. This wasnt long ago he certainly was still doing it in the early eighties. I too am amazed that EHO havnt banned them. As for camra, many that I have met dont have much of a clue about beer but the few that do know are not the vocal ones.

[dmr]

22 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

They have been used for millions and millions of pints for a very long time. Those of us who have used them have mostly thought they are not a good idea. Many older drinkers dont like a clean glass every time so not only does beer run over servers fingers into the tray to be drawn back up into the glass it also washes the glass in the process lol. As I said earlier my mate and many others over the years smoked at the back of the bar and yes it was always bad practice but hey who cared!! he would have his fag in his mouth and let the ash fall off the end into the recirculated beer. This wasnt long ago he certainly was still doing it in the early eighties. I too am amazed that EHO havnt banned them. As for camra, many that I have met dont have much of a clue about beer but the few that do know are not the vocal ones.

Interesting stuff, I knew nothing about this but am now an "expert via Google". Sounds like a typical Yorkshire (and Scottish) tradition to me ?. I am one of those types that is happy to keep one glass all night (as long as I am on the same beer) but have noticed that many pubs no longer allow this.

My Googling told me that Ossett brewery use it, I was drinking their (very nice) stuff a couple of weeks ago.

As for CAMRA, they are locked into tradition and don't like any change/modernisation so not surprised that they are happy with it. I worry about CAMRA, both of my children know and like a good pint, but they drink a lot of craft beer keg stuff (some of which is superb), for them CAMRA is irrelevant.

 

................Dave

[jonesthenuke]

Sadly, The Vine in Kinver is now a pretty poor place. Often empty after 8pm and shut by 9pm

 Hygiene rating of 1 last year http://www.ratemyplace.org.uk/inspections/the-vine-inn-kinver

 

Hopefully it will improve as it used to be much better.

 

[Captain Pegg]

On 1 March 2019 at 19:23, Goliath said:

Am I complaining?

 

give me a £2 carling above an over priced ‘craft ale’ anytime. 

 

Just walked out of a craft ale pub. Ordered a Jennings and it came with flies on top. 

Guiness at the minute at £2.50. 

 

Whilst I’ve a preference for a good pint of bitter, I won’t pay through the nose for it. 

 

 

What does Jennings have to do with craft beer; did you simply mean a pub with a number of hand pulls?

 

Jennings is one of a number of regional brewers bought out by Marston's in recent years which gives them a national platform for beer that doesn't deserve it.

 

JP

[Athy]

11 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

What does Jennings have to do with craft beer; did you simply mean a pub with a number of hand pulls?

 

Jennings is one of a number of regional brewers bought out by Marston's in recent years which gives them a national platform for beer that doesn't deserve it.

 

JP

That's interesting. I recently bought a selection box of bottled beers which included two of Jennings' brews. I found both rather characterless (though, to be fair, one was only 3.4% strength, and few beers as light as that punch above their weight, an exception being E.P.A. from - yes - Marston's.)

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, dmr said:

Interesting stuff, I knew nothing about this but am now an "expert via Google". Sounds like a typical Yorkshire (and Scottish) tradition to me ?. I am one of those types that is happy to keep one glass all night (as long as I am on the same beer) but have noticed that many pubs no longer allow this.

My Googling told me that Ossett brewery use it, I was drinking their (very nice) stuff a couple of weeks ago.

As for CAMRA, they are locked into tradition and don't like any change/modernisation so not surprised that they are happy with it. I worry about CAMRA, both of my children know and like a good pint, but they drink a lot of craft beer keg stuff (some of which is superb), for them CAMRA is irrelevant.

 

................Dave

I think the auto vac system is unknown of by most drinkers which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Like many in fact most jobs there is far more goes on than people who havnt done the job dont know about. Tetley and John smiths pubs all had the system just a few years ago to name but two that I have personal knowledge of. I had three pubs put in the camra good beer guide and some of their blokes were a good laugh and new a little that went on in the cellar and different methods we could use but most were just anoraks and busy bodies. My lad is a brewer amongst other skills and at his last pub had his own brewery he ran alongside and as well as the busy pub!!  He was there for ten years but has since moved to another pub. Beer is something I can claim some knowledge about!!

[Dr Bob]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think the auto vac system is unknown of by most drinkers which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Like many in fact most jobs there is far more goes on than people who havnt done the job dont know about. Tetley and John smiths pubs all had the system just a few years ago to name but two that I have personal knowledge of. I had three pubs put in the camra good beer guide and some of their blokes were a good laugh and new a little that went on in the cellar and different methods we could use but most were just anoraks and busy bodies. My lad is a brewer amongst other skills and at his last pub had his own brewery he ran alongside and as well as the busy pub!!  He was there for ten years but has since moved to another pub. Beer is something I can claim some knowledge about!!

So what's the current thinking on using your first pint glass for a second or third pint. I always say ' can you use this glass' as then there is less chance of getting a glass with detergent etc in it. Only once though last year did I get the response ' No sir, I am not allowed to do that'. I quizzed the barmaid as to why. She responded that my glass is contaminated with my bodily fluids and if it touched the nozzle of the beer tap, than that contamination could be transferred to the next glass they poured. Now that did sound sensible at the time but on reflection......?

Has anyone died going to the pub for a beer? Do I really care? For me, if the beer tastes good, I'll drink there and avoid pubs who serve naff stuff. HSE gone mad.

[Victor Vectis]

Anyone remember electric pumps?

 

The sort I'm thinking of were either a perspex tube or a cube with a hollow sphere inside.

Invincible Metron and Invincible Sphereon I think they were called.

They served exactly half a pint through a tight sparkler.

 

I first came across them in a Darley's pub in Armthorpe, can't remember it's name.

What I do remember, however, is a pint of froth served in an oversize glass (24oz?) and having to wait ages for it to settle before I could drink.

Quite an alien experience for an Essex boy (as was the whole pit village thing, but that's another story)

Edited March 3, 2019 by Victor Vectis
Spelin.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

So what's the current thinking on using your first pint glass for a second or third pint. I always say ' can you use this glass' as then there is less chance of getting a glass with detergent etc in it. Only once though last year did I get the response ' No sir, I am not allowed to do that'. I quizzed the barmaid as to why. She responded that my glass is contaminated with my bodily fluids and if it touched the nozzle of the beer tap, than that contamination could be transferred to the next glass they poured. Now that did sound sensible at the time but on reflection......?

Has anyone died going to the pub for a beer? Do I really care? For me, if the beer tastes good, I'll drink there and avoid pubs who serve naff stuff. HSE gone mad.

Resusing a glass is not in itself a no no or anything HSE care much about. It has been attempted in the past to be outlawed but at present is much like the BSS or car MOT in its more down to discretion. The problem you will find is that in managed houses of which there are many it will depend on if the owner/brewer has mad any stipulation, so for instance if a particular group lets say Wetherspoons has decided that a fresh glass must be used then the server will have to comply as in any other job, or blagg it depending on his lifes experience. Of course a free house ( proper ) owner can also make the same stipulation to his staff. I always just advised any of my staff to use their common sense and if they didnt have any they would simply ask me for a decision!!

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Anyone remember electric pumps?

 

The sort I'm thinking of were either a perspex tube or a cube with a hollow sphere inside.

Invincible Metron and Invincible Sphereon I think they were called.

They served exactly half a pint through a tight sparkler.

 

I first came across them in a Darley's pub in Armthorpe, can't remember it's name.

What I do remember, however, is a pint of froth served in an oversize glass (24oz?) and having to wait ages for it to settle before I could drink.

Quite an alien experience for an Essex boy (as was the whole pit village thing, but that's another story)

I have used them many times. The last time was in a pub in Failsworth about 1991 ish. They did of course only dispense Keg beer. Yes 24 oz glass was the norm usualy lined at the pint mark. The times I had to tell staff not to fill them with cask ale as that was giving a pint of beer away with every five dispensed!! Funny thing is that Wetherspoons used to spout about always giving a " Full " pint and always had 24 oz glasses. The wazzack soon back peddled when he realised how much money he was losing and all his houses were issued overnight after a while with proper pint glasses!! lol. There is of course nowt wrong with serving a full pint in a pint glass but too many eejuts were taking the pee by getting youngsters to top up their 24 oz glass which of course the rest of us in the trade new all about.

[Cheshire cat]

There is an online forum for members within the CAMRA website and there has been heated debate regarding AutoVacs. It seems to be the case that they are only to be found in West Yorkshire and pubs around Edinburgh these days. Unsuprisingly the views expressed were polarised, some supporting their use to generate a creamy head and the detractors almost vomiting as they typed at the thought of what they might be coming in to contact with as a result of poor training and execution by the bar staff.

 

It was suggested that pubs using autovacs should be identified and flagged up in the good beer guide but I think that idea has been dropped. 

 

A pub that I won't be in a rush to revisit is the Olde Peculiar at Armitage. It had four real ales on. The first two I tried were on the turn. I had planned to sample the Old Peculier but noticed no-one else was drinking it so guessed that it was possibly going to be past it's best too. There's little point in having multiple beers on if you can't shift the barrel before it starts to turn.  

[Tim Lewis]

55 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Anyone remember electric pumps?

 

The sort I'm thinking of were either a perspex tube or a cube with a hollow sphere inside.

Invincible Metron and Invincible Sphereon I think they were called.

They served exactly half a pint through a tight sparkler.

 

I first came across them in a Darley's pub in Armthorpe, can't remember it's name.

What I do remember, however, is a pint of froth served in an oversize glass (24oz?) and having to wait ages for it to settle before I could drink.

Quite an alien experience for an Essex boy (as was the whole pit village thing, but that's another story)

They were extensively used by Banks’s when I stated drinking in the mid 1970’s, both cylinders and spheres. Don’t remember the big heads or oversize glasses but then it was a long time ago!

Edited March 3, 2019 by Tim Lewis

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Cheshire cat said:

There is an online forum for members within the CAMRA website and there has been heated debate regarding AutoVacs. It seems to be the case that they are only to be found in West Yorkshire and pubs around Edinburgh these days. Unsuprisingly the views expressed were polarised, some supporting their use to generate a creamy head and the detractors almost vomiting as they typed at the thought of what they might be coming in to contact with as a result of poor training and execution by the bar staff.

 

It was suggested that pubs using autovacs should be identified and flagged up in the good beer guide but I think that idea has been dropped. 

 

A pub that I won't be in a rush to revisit is the Olde Peculiar at Armitage. It had four real ales on. The first two I tried were on the turn. I had planned to sample the Old Peculier but noticed no-one else was drinking it so guessed that it was possibly going to be past it's best too. There's little point in having multiple beers on if you can't shift the barrel before it starts to turn.  

So very very true. I go into countless pubs especialy mid week evenings with virtualy no one in and 6 cask ales all in use. there is NO WAY to sell very good beer like this. My busiest cask ale pub we had 8 different pumps and we were busy enough that all were changed within at the very worst five days and the popular beers much more often. However during a rainy january in the countryside I would reduce down to 4 and at times even 2 and sell them quickly and in good condition. Far better to sell but one good beer than have a bullshit range of crappy beer.

Edited March 3, 2019 by mrsmelly

[Nightwatch]

23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

So very very true. I go into countless pubs especialy mid week evenings with virtualy no one in and 6 cask ales all in use. there is NO WAY to sell very good beer like this. My busiest cask ale pub we had 8 different pumps and we were busy enough that all were changed within at the very worst five days and the popular beers much more often. However during a rainy january in the countryside I would reduce down to 4 and at times even 2 and sell them quickly and in good condition. Far better to sell but one good beer than have a bullshit range of crappy beer.

I can live with just two to choose from. Condition is vital. It seems that pubs don't pull off a bit of beer before the first pint. I always get the first which, maybe all in the mind tastes incorrect. The second, third and even forth are good. I have a quick scan of the bar and if no one is drinking ale I'll have Guinness to start.

[dmr]

3 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Anyone remember electric pumps?

 

The sort I'm thinking of were either a perspex tube or a cube with a hollow sphere inside.

Invincible Metron and Invincible Sphereon I think they were called.

They served exactly half a pint through a tight sparkler.

 

I first came across them in a Darley's pub in Armthorpe, can't remember it's name.

What I do remember, however, is a pint of froth served in an oversize glass (24oz?) and having to wait ages for it to settle before I could drink.

Quite an alien experience for an Essex boy (as was the whole pit village thing, but that's another story)

I remember something like this from my youth. A horizontal glass/perspex tube and a piston moved across to dispense a half pint (I think), then back again for the other half. I bow to MrSmellys knowledge but I thought they dispensed real ale. It was in a black country pub where I saw them, maybe this one:

 

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g187065-d1788211-Reviews-The_Crooked_House-Dudley_West_Midlands_England.html 

 

Hard to believe now, but in those days Birmingham was almost a real ale free zone so had to drive out of the city to get a proper pint.

 

................Dave

[Athy]

14 minutes ago, dmr said:

I remember something like this from my youth. A horizontal glass/perspex tube and a piston moved across to dispense a half pint (I think), then back again for the other half.  

Exactly that, yes. I first met them in Sheffield. Haven't seen one in many moons.

[Señor Chris]

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

Hard to believe now, but in those days Birmingham was almost a real ale free zone so had to drive out of the city to get a proper pint.

By contrast, Manchester was considered a haven for real ale thanks to Boddingtons and Holts, amongst others.

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Exactly that, yes. I first met them in Sheffield. Haven't seen one in many moons.

I remember them in Holts pubs. They were used for real ale, not keg.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Hard to believe now, but in those days Birmingham was almost a real ale free zone so had to drive out of the city to get a proper pint.

On a sunny day we used to bike out of Brum to Washford Mill in the Clent hills, drink two halves of something flat and vaguely purple, have a sleep on the grass bank for an hour or two, then bike back. 

[BWM]

On 26/02/2019 at 16:38, Victor Vectis said:

Sign outside the Tom o' the Wood at Rowington on the GU:

 

Dogs welcome.

Children must be kept on a lead.

People tolerated.

 

(I would just add that the Tom o' the Wood is not a pub to be avoided)

The Tom also has a doggie dinner after Sunday roast, they put out bowls for visiting hounds filled with leftovers. 

[dmr]

38 minutes ago, WotEver said:

On a sunny day we used to bike out of Brum to Washford Mill in the Clent hills, drink two halves of something flat and vaguely purple, have a sleep on the grass bank for an hour or two, then bike back. 

 

I remember lots of trips to the pubs around Lapworth, also the Black Boy which was a fairly basic canal side boozer in those days, and the odd trip to Ma Pardoes, so even back then a big connection with the canals. I can't remember if all of the Lapworth pubs did real ale but like many Birmingham drinkers we often drank brown and mild (a boiler?) to try to concoct something interesting.

 

...................Dave

[Athy]

21 minutes ago, dmr said:

brown and mild (a boiler?) 

 

...................Dave

I've never heard it called that. When I was a student at Brum, I remember that some people called it a Martin Luther King, which seemed quite witty. 

From that same era, if you ordered a Black velvet you got a pint of mixed Guinness or Macky and cider - students could not afford the real version.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Athy