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blue eagle

Refloated boat?

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Hi can you please help i have put a offer on a boat, but digging into its history i have discovered that it sank due to its weed hatch being left off.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/londoners-horror-as-houseboat-sinks-with-all-of-her-possessions-on-board-a3509466.html#

 

The boat has had a survey since and is dry inside, but there is powdery rust on inside of the hull the bits i can get to anyhow. Should i run away or am i just concerned over nothing?

The broker did not include this in the history section but suppose you wouldn't. 

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If you want it and the price is OK, buy it.

You will need to totally strip it out if you want to de rust and protect the inside but many would not bother, plenty of new boats have been built on shells with not even a coat of paint inside.

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Id be more worried about delamination of laminated woods, than rust. Depends who built the shell whether it was painted inside first.

i think it also depends where it sunk, fresh flowing or stagnant water.

make sure its cheap .. you may need a sinking fund  ( sorry) for future unseen issues.

also as its all over tinternet you may need to change the name otherwise when you sell it a quick search will put others off

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Engine and gearbox should be OK if you drain the oil and water out and do filters etc. before they are turned over. Get all the water out of the fuel tank, pumps and pipes.

Recovered several sunk engines, all been OK.

If its a PRM160 gearbox, beware the clutch linings are paper and need to be oil soaked not water, take the top off and get it completely dry.

Bow water tank will be polluted, drain, fill add Milton, drain and fill again to flush.

Watch out for loo effluent, health risk.

  • Greenie 1

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Unless you know exactly what was done to repair the boat after sinking, walk away. Engine, electrics, ...... I give up, its a complete minefield.

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I wouldn't immediately walk away BUT I would do a lot more investigating and the price would have to be right - in my view if its the reason its on sale the broker should have told you...………...can you talk to the surveyor? In some cases if you "take over" his report (i.e. pay him) he will then disclose - who did he do the survey for (the insurance company?) 

 

Lots more time needed I'm afraid but it may still be worth it.

 

My Father in law nearly sank a boat of mine many years ago as he borrowed it and didn't put the weed hatch on properly but with care and dehumidification it survived with no ill effects BUT it didn't "go under" so engine and electrics weren't affected.

 

It doesn't look that unusual (sorry) so if its not special in some way (particularly price) it might be better to keep looking...……………………... 

Edited by Halsey

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25 minutes ago, Halsey said:

in my view if its the reason its on sale the broker should have told you

Legally the broker is acting on behalf of the seller and there is no necessity to divulge any faults.

He is legally required to truthfully answer any specific question 'to the best of his knowledge' (ie "has been boat ever been sunk/recovered"), but if the owner has not divulged the facts then the broker can simply say "not that I am aware".

 

Ethically, and 'suggested' by the brokerage associations, is the suggestion that brokers should divulge all known facts in their sales documentation.

 

Those who thinks that they get 'security' by buying from a broker are living in cloud-cuckoo land.

 

Typical 'warranty statement' in brokers T&Cs

 

The Seller is not selling the boat in the course of a business, trade or profession. The Buyer is free to inspect, survey and sea trial the boat and all gear and equipment included within the sale and to satisfy himself as to her condition, quality and specification. Therefore all express or implied warranties or conditions, statutory or otherwise, are hereby excluded unless specifically included in this Agreement, and the boat, her gear and equipment shall be taken with all defects and faults of description without any allowance or abatement whatsoever.

 

Broker’s ‘Legal Liability To Disclose Information’ 
 
In the RYA’s view, there is no general legal obligation on either Seller or broker to disclose the existence of defects to a prospective Buyer, unless, of course, they are asked a specific question, which is why a survey is essential. 
 
Nevertheless the RYA, the BMF and the ABYA believe that it is good practice for a broker to fairly represent a boat being offered for sale and should therefore disclose any defects made know to them by the Seller. 
 
A standard disclaimer will be included in the brokers Agreement with the Seller, the purpose of which is to protect a broker against complaints by a Buyer that the broker’s published particulars of a boat are wrong, in circumstances where the broker has relied on the Seller’s information when writing those particulars. 

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Thanks for the response, to me it looked fine not even damp inside, been well maintained ect, so this was a bit of a shock seeing the photos. Maybe the broker does not know the seller may have not mentioned it.

 http://vcmarine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Midnight-diamond.pdf

think i now know why it has new prop and shaft though. The gearbox is a prm 150?

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36 minutes ago, blue eagle said:

to me it looked fine not even damp inside, been well maintained ect,

As Roland referred to above you should carefully check all the woodwork for signs of rot. A rotten panel with a fresh coat of paint can appear solid at first glance. Can you access the floor anywhere? Does it appear dry and solid? How about the lower half of the panels below the gunwales?

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If it had been refloated and properly repaired and refitted I would have thought the broker would have said so if only to avoid this sort of issue. The details strike me as very mealy mouthed and, in that famous civil servant quote, "economical with the truth".

 

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Definitely walk away.  Anyone taking on a sunk boat needs to know a lot about boats AND have money to spend on it that they can afford to lose if it becomes too big a job.  If you need to ask about it on here then you are not best placed to tackle such a job. :(

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I've sold boats, good, bad and sunk. I stand and say to the prospect " is there anything I can tell you about the boat? " They usually ask a few easy  to answer questions.

 

I do not need to tell them the history or what is wrong with it. But what they ask I will answer truthfully.

 

The last sunken boat I sold went for a lot more than I expected, was a "Shed" and looked it complete with tide line inside. The guy wanted to know what we had done to stop it sinking again ( we had plated both sides where it had rubbed through on the dock ) and if the engine worked.

He bought it and gutted it where it stood. So it was what he wanted and was happy to pay for.

 

Why do you need to say more?

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If it was me, I would walk away. Without the full detail of what was done to sort the problem, you don't know what is out of sight. The price they are asking doesn't look particularly cheap. Nearly £30K for a near 30 year old 45ft NB would be ok if it was in good nick. Keep looking unless this is your dream boat and it ticks all the boxes.

  • Greenie 1

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If its £30K its way, way too dear, the insurer will have paid out not much more I would think and the salvage value would have been assessed at a lot less than that. Scrap steel is £400 a ton.

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Having seen more detail I think I would walk away and tell the broker why...…………..if you have paid a deposit his lack of transparency/knowledge should be grounds to get it back as he has a good rep at this end of the market

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Doesn't it depend on how bad the sinking was? If in a lock then everything is likely to have been affected, but when mine sank it was on its mooring, no water in the cabin, just (cruiser stern) the engine area flooded as it only settled a foot or so. Once the engine was sorted you couldn't tell it had ever happened. 

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Such a lot of unknowns. If it was raised within a day or so then it could be fine. If the insulation is soggy behind the panelling then it is not good. If the engine etc had oil changed then that's good. if not then that's bad. Don't worry about the steel on the inside surfaces, if its dried out then it'll be ok. You need to lift the floor to see if ot is truly dry. As Dr. Bob says though, it is not particularly cheap and it looks like a nice but quite ordinary boat.

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Look at advert. Its a 1990 brown stain fit out above and new lunun white below. Looks as if at least the lower half has had some new timber and the upper a repaint where needed. New laminate floor and units. 

Loads of new bits involved

given that and you know it sank through accident not rot, if you can negotiate a good price and get a good survey report you might be ok. Just bear in mind other boats with better histories are available. 

Its also been let out.

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21 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Doesn't it depend on how bad the sinking was? If in a lock then everything is likely to have been affected, but when mine sank it was on its mooring, no water in the cabin, just (cruiser stern) the engine area flooded as it only settled a foot or so. Once the engine was sorted you couldn't tell it had ever happened. 

Look at the link in the first post. It turned on its side and was well flooded. The woman lost all her personal belongings ....well that's  she said. Looks like all new electrical stuff in the galley. Everything would have been soaked.

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Ask who did the refit after the sinking, if paid for by the insurance company it is likely to be a good job. If the insurance co sold as seen or at auction, as they often do, then any repairs/refit may be more questionable. You certainly need to get an independent survey done which you pay for, tell the surveyor the history before he inspects, it will cost a couple of hundred but may save you 10 grand in the next few years.

 

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Thankyou thankyou i am going to leave it for someone else as there are other boats without this concern. Also i think the article points out it might not have had a proper rental ticket, so insurance may not have even paid out. big help 

  • Greenie 1

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The other big 'downer' is that it has an Alde central heating boiler (a £27, 13kg gas bottle every 4 days in cold weather)

We have the same and although we only use it to heat water, it is very gas hungry.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The other big 'downer' is that it has an Alde central heating boiler (a £27, 13kg gas bottle every 4 days in cold weather)

Fortunately it has a solid fuel stove. I have the same set up and very rarely need to use the Alde for space heating; it's not a big issue for water heating.

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