BETA 35 not starting - help!

[imranino]

Hi kids!

 

I'm having trouble with my Beta 35. Here's the back story:

 

I was out of the country for 6 months, during which time a friend was looking after the boat. He had to repack the stern gland in this time, and in the period immediately after, it wasn't properly packed and in the space of about a week the engine room flooded. The bottom of the engine was submerged. Immediately after draining, the engine seemed to be OK and started fine.

 

Now, however, the engine won't start at all. At present, turning the ignition key doesn't seem to do anything. The starter battery is fine, I've checked all the wires at the connection points and fuses. I understand that if the started motor is shot, I'm likely to hear it clicking? As such I'm lead to believe that the problem is the wiring or the ignition switch itself? One of the connections on the ignition was horribly corroded.

 

My questions for you experts are:

 

1) Have I overlooked something blindingly obvious?

 

2) Is there a way of hot-wiring the ignition switch to rule that out?

 

Many thanks for any thoughts.

[RLWP]

6 minutes ago, imranino said:

I understand that if the started motor is shot, I'm likely to hear it clicking?

Not necessarily, if the solenoid has corroded up it won't move so no click

 

A drowned, then dried and rusted up starter sounds like a good candidate for your problem

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

I'm not familiar with the starter motor on a Beta 35, but for most starter motors it is usually possible to short together a couple of the connections on the motor itself with a suitable piece of wire.

Somebody will probably know what you can do on this particular engine, but if you post a picture of the starter clearly showing all its parts and connections it will probably make it easier to direct you.

However,assuming your actual starter switch is above anything that got wet, it seems far more likely your problem relates to something that did get wet, so I would expect you are likely to be ruing it out, rather than finding the fault.

Just how high did the water come up the engine?  Was the starter motor completely submerged?  How long was it submerged for?

[imranino]

Just now, RLWP said:

A drowned, then dried and rusted up starter sounds like a good candidate for your problem

 

That sounds a bit right! So the whole starter motor will want replacing?

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, RLWP said:

Not necessarily, if the solenoid has corroded up it won't move so no click

 

A drowned, then dried and rusted up starter sounds like a good candidate for your problem

 

Richard

Yes this ^^^^^

If it was submerged for a long while, but then just allowed to dry out, that seems most likely to me.

[Tony Brooks]

I think trying to short the main battery terminal on the starter to the solenoid terminal may not be easy with the big angle iron engine foot but agree that should be a good diagnostic step.

 

With that degree of flooding I think the multi-plug on the main loom may have been submerged so worth locating, splitting, cleaning & waggling.

[Guest]

Assuming that the starter has taken a drowning, I would be tempted to remove it and take it to a local auto electrical supplier and have it tested.

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, imranino said:

That sounds a bit right! So the whole starter motor will want replacing?

If that is what it is - yes. If you have a local reconditioning place, take the starter off and get them to test it. That's often the cheapest way of getting it replaced too

 

Richard

Just now, catweasel said:

Assuming that the starter has taken a drowning, I would be tempted to remove it and take it to a local auto electrical supplier and have it tested.

 

Me too!

[alan_fincher]

5 minutes ago, imranino said:

That sounds a bit right! So the whole starter motor will want replacing?

No, a specialist automotive electrical place that is any good should be able to overhaul at lower cost than replacing.  On starters I'm familiar with you can replace the solenoid and/or contact parts without needing to replace the main "gubbins", (assuming they are also not corroded up).

 

The fact that you were able to start it after it was wet, but now can't would indicate to me there is a fair chance it can be repaired.  You do eed an old fashioned"Sir Nibble" type place with a man out the back with an industrial sized soldering iron.  They are becoming harder to find.

Edited February 14, 2019 by alan_fincher

[imranino]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

With that degree of flooding I think the multi-plug on the main loom may have been submerged so worth locating, splitting, cleaning & waggling.

Yes, that didn't get submerged

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, imranino said:

Yes, that didn't get submerged

In that case I am also with the starter  going to a  specialist.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think trying to short the main battery terminal on the starter to the solenoid terminal may not be easy with the big angle iron engine foot but agree that should be a good diagnostic step.

 

With that degree of flooding I think the multi-plug on the main loom may have been submerged so worth locating, splitting, cleaning & waggling.

I am not familiar with this engine, but agree re the plug/socket arrangement.  Also our vetus has a relay on the engine block which operates the starter. These often fail and might be worth checking if engine in question has one?

[imranino]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

You do eed an old fashioned"Sir Nibble" type place with a man out the back with an industrial sized soldering iron.  They are becoming harder to find

Yep I think it'll be easier to replace it that looking for a needle in a haystack!

[Bee]

Probably starter but please check and probably change engine oil, the dipstick hole is below the starter level. Check the engine actually turns over. if all seems ok then just take the starter to an automotive place for a verdict. (Then hit your friend over the head with it)

Edited February 14, 2019 by Bee

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Do you have a multimeter? Could be used to measure voltage at the starter motor, particularly when the key switch is turned to start. A picture of the back of the motor will let us tell you where to poke the probes. This would eliminate the switch and multiplug and wiring as the problem if it shows 12V to the start relay input. Might save you taking the starter off, taking it to a repair shop and be told it was fine all along. A quick test if you have a meter and a second person to turn the key while you measure.

 

Jen

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[RLWP]

4 minutes ago, imranino said:

Yep I think it'll be easier to replace it that looking for a needle in a haystack!

Where are you?

[imranino]

I've never had to replace any engine parts besides filters and such - do marinas tend to stock these?

[RLWP]

Just now, imranino said:

I've never had to replace any engine parts besides filters and such - do marinas tend to stock these?

Starters? No

[imranino]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Do you have a multimeter? Could be used to measure voltage at the starter motor, particularly when the key switch is turned to start. A picture of the back of the motor will let us tell you where to poke the probes. This would eliminate the switch and multiplug and wiring as the problem if it shows 12V to the start relay input. Might save you taking the starter off, taking it to a repair shop and be told it was fine all along.

  

Jen

Thanks Jen, that's a really good idea. I'll try that. I was thinking that there might just not be power getting to the motor, as it's not making any sort of noise at all.

[Bee]

If you do need a new starter remember that the engine is (I think) a Kubota and you will probably do better to look for parts at an agricultural dealer or plant dealer, try E bay and such like for old digger'tractor/mower parts.

[imranino]

I've just been pointed in the direction of a place that can service the starter, so that's covered. Great!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, imranino said:

Thanks Jen, that's a really good idea. I'll try that. I was thinking that there might just not be power getting to the motor, as it's not making any sort of noise at all.

There are two connections typically to the motor (some may vary there are exceptions, but likely on a Beta). A big fat cable that supplies the main current, which should have 12V on it all the time, compared with the engine block. The second cable will be a thin one going to a small terminal. This is the signal from the start position on the key switch that supplies just enough current to close some contacts in the motor to get the motor going. A bit simplified, but that is it. The small terminal will have 12V on it only when the key switch is turned. A photo will let us tell you where to measure.

 

If/when you take the starter off, disconnect the engine battery first. You can get wire melting currents very quickly if the main cable to the starter touches something like the engine, or boat hull. There is usually no fuse in this circuit to protect it.

 

Jen

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[imranino]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There are two connections typically to the motor (some may vary there are exceptions, but likely on a Beta). A big fat cable that supplies the main current, which should have 12V on it all the time, compared with the engine block. The second cable will be a thin one going to a small terminal. This is the signal from the start position on the key switch that supplies just enough current to close some contacts in the motor to get the motor going. A bit simplified, but that is it. The small terminal will have 12V on it only when the key switch is turned. A photo will let us tell you where to measure.

  

Jen

OK. I'm away from the boat so I could get some ideas and research online. What a result! I'll head to the boat now to try all of this.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, imranino said:

Yep I think it'll be easier to replace it that looking for a needle in a haystack!

Then expect it t5o be very expensive.  Your profile gives the boat as being on the Regents canal and Sahibs http://www.sahibs.com/contactus.html has been recommended on here before. If you use the BT telephone directory most large towns have a starter and alternator specialist.

[Iain_S]

If the ignition key is "doing nothing", i.e. no lights on panel, then a likely candidate is the main engine fuse, which is usually tucked away behind the starter motor.