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resealing flue pipe


SadieF

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4 minutes ago, SadieF said:

The sanding attachment may be enough for the roof and perhaps the collar needs going over with the wire brush attachment as it looks very rusty under there

Note that a flap sanding disk is MUCH more aggressive than a wire brush attachment. 

6 minutes ago, SadieF said:

I couldnt see how the sanding discs attach and work with the guard. Guessing that comes off.

Correct. The guide that now comes with all small grinders is a relatively new H&S thing. I generally throw them in the bin because they get in the way. 

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9 minutes ago, SadieF said:

a youtube video may have to suffice

This guy appears to be using a 6” wire wheel on a 9” grinder but it shows how it removes the crud and polishes the steel. 

 

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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Note that a flap sanding disk is MUCH more aggressive than a wire brush attachment. 

Correct. The guide that now comes with all small grinders is a relatively new H&S thing. I generally throw them in the bin because they get in the way. 

I just slacken mine off a bit so I can move it round where I want.

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Here’s a bit more of an in-depth look at grinders and their attachments. Note that he stresses that you should never remove the guard. 

 

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I just slacken mine off a bit so I can move it round where I want.

Probably very sensible :)

 

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To the person that has but not used their angle grinder, if you have some old thin cutting Discs (about a mm or so) they usually have a month and year stamped on the centre mounting ring - it’s actually a use by date - best you don’t use them if they have expired as they might burst in use depending on storage etc.

  • Greenie 1
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Ok. Im going to get a couple of flap sanding discs. I thought i had to hold the sander disc flat to the surface but it appears on that video he's holding at an angle ( maybe thats where it gets the name). So the guard can stay on if thats the case. 

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4 hours ago, Iain_S said:

If using a brush attachment on a small (5" or less) angle grinder, make sure the speed is reduced. (If it's one with a fixed speed, then don't use a wire brush!) Failure to observe this results in death of the angle grinder. Also, don't rely on the locking pin when removing the brush, whatever size of grinder you're using.

 

(A wise man learns from his mistakes;

a wiser man learns from other people's mistakes)

 

A small angle grinder spins faster than a big one. Typically, a 240V 4 1/2" grinder is 11,000 or 12,000 rpm no load speed, while a 9" one has a no load speed about 6,000 rpm. The small one has a lot less torque, and can be slowed considerably by a wire brush, overloading the motor and releasing magic smoke. Having seen two angle grinders burnt out by (possibly over enthusiastic!) volunteers doing paint preparation on a trip boat in one afternoon, I wouldn't use one without using a lower speed, which reduces the load on the motor. One of the dead ones was mine, although it wasn't me using it ? . I did, however, shear the locking pin while attempting to extract the wire brush from the dead grinder.

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12 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Ok. Im going to get a couple of flap sanding discs. I thought i had to hold the sander disc flat to the surface but it appears on that video he's holding at an angle ( maybe thats where it gets the name). So the guard can stay on if thats the case. 

Be careful with flap discs. It’s ever so easy to gouge out a groove in the steel. And yes, you use them at an angle. 

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13 hours ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Ref your rusty stove, cheapest easy option is to black lead it, apply with a rag then polish it off, a bit like cleaning shoes.  Stoves come  up a treat.

Phil

Hiya.

 

Do you have to take the rust off first with this method? 

 

Cheers

Sadie

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:
2 hours ago, SadieF said:

The sanding attachment may be enough for the roof and perhaps the collar needs going over with the wire brush attachment as it looks very rusty under there

Note that a flap sanding disk is MUCH more aggressive than a wire brush attachment

Actually perhaps wire brush is better since im sure there is an attachment for this kicking about already. 

 

Hope to do on weds. Will post progress. 

Thanks for all the advice. Its really valuable

 

Sadie

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16 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Actually perhaps wire brush is better since im sure there is an attachment for this kicking about already. 

 

Hope to do on weds. Will post progress. 

Thanks for all the advice. Its really valuable

 

Sadie

A wire brush for an angle grinder screws straight onto the shaft - there’s no attachment. 

 

Edited by WotEver
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SadieF

 

Just take your time for now, there's a lot of showing off and point scoring on this forum. Its winter, its cold, and it keeps raining. Chimney collars are a late spring/summer job. The only issue is getting the bolts undone, after that sorting out the rust is a bit tedious but can be done with hand tools at a push. A flat sanding disc on a sanding backer  in an angle grinder is a good thing to have, dunno why people are talking about thin cutting discs etc etc, ,they are lovely but absolutely nothing to do with your job.

You will need three or four consecutive dry days to get this job done.  You could clean and paint your stove now unless its lit, mine has been lit solid for the last 3 months.  ?

 

................Dave

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5 minutes ago, dmr said:

SadieF

 

Just take your time for now, there's a lot of showing off and point scoring on this forum. Its winter, its cold, and it keeps raining. Chimney collars are a late spring/summer job. The only issue is getting the bolts undone, after that sorting out the rust is a bit tedious but can be done with hand tools at a push. A flat sanding disc on a sanding backer  in an angle grinder is a good thing to have, dunno why people are talking about thin cutting discs etc etc, ,they are lovely but absolutely nothing to do with your job.

You will need three or four consecutive dry days to get this job done.  You could clean and paint your stove now unless its lit, mine has been lit solid for the last 3 months.  ?

 

................Dave

I see your point. Im just really eager as ive got loads more to crack on with after this. Dont want to make the stove all nice before ive sorted the leak too. I saw a 3 day break in the weather. Wed to fri. This could change though so will check wed am before i start. I also have another place to stay for next couple of weeks so ideal time to let it cure. However, this cold weather might prolong sealant cure time. 

 

Btw i do have some flat sanding discs already but not the backer. Saw this in the video posted. Would this be less savage than the flap discs?

 

Thanks

Sadie

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1 hour ago, SadieF said:

Hiya.

 

Do you have to take the rust off first with this method? 

 

Cheers

Sadie

Just a swift rub down with a medium abrasive paper to take any loose stuff of then wearing gloves gently squeeze a dob out onto a bit of rag and rub in continue till all is covered. I polish it up with a shoe polishing brush. It looks good when buffed up and should last you till you are done with the fire. Repeat ready for next fire season. Agreed it doesn't last as long as paint  but is much quicker, couple of hours should be plenty allowing for time for a brew and don't forget to do the flue.

Phil

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1 hour ago, SadieF said:

I see your point. Im just really eager as ive got loads more to crack on with after this. Dont want to make the stove all nice before ive sorted the leak too. I saw a 3 day break in the weather. Wed to fri. This could change though so will check wed am before i start. I also have another place to stay for next couple of weeks so ideal time to let it cure. However, this cold weather might prolong sealant cure time. 

 

Btw i do have some flat sanding discs already but not the backer. Saw this in the video posted. Would this be less savage than the flap discs?

 

Thanks

Sadie

You need the flexible backer, they're real use is for sheet metal work.

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Hi all

Thanks for all your advice so far. I got started yesterday and got a nasty surprise when i found a little hole in the roof. See picture. 

 

Ive temporarily covered it up

ready to finish on saturday. But what to to about this hole. Its not covered by the collar its just outside the join. Is there something i can do other than welding. This has made me nervous about rest of boat.... 

 

Thanks

Sadie

 

 

20190213_174104.jpg

20190213_163659.jpg

20190213_174130.jpg

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4 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Hi all

Thanks for all your advice so far. I got started yesterday and got a nasty surprise when i found a little hole in the roof. See picture. 

 

Ive temporarily covered it up

ready to finish on saturday. But what to to about this hole. Its not covered by the collar its just outside the join. Is there something i can do other than welding. This has made me nervous about rest of boat.... 

 

Thanks

Sadie

 

 

20190213_174104.jpg

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20190213_174130.jpg

Its probably just local to the collar area. Condensation from the smoke and stuff. Grind it out and fill with filler, rub smooth with grit paper. P38 car body filler would do as it shouldn't get very hot there prividing the flue pipe is not touching the collar. A new collar might be best too, and that flue pipe doesn't look long enough which could be why condensation moisture spread under the collar.

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Don't panic, this is not entirely unexpected, and as Biz has said this is a high rust potential area. My boat is relatively new, about 18, but I still found some deep pitting under the chimney collar.  You need to asses the whole area by poking with an old  screwdriver and gentle hammering (rust sounds dull, steel sounds sharp).  I suspect there is more rust.  If its quite extensive then welding in a new section is by far the best approach and cheapest in the long term. Welders are not that expensive but find one who knows his stuff! You could even get a couple of captive nuts put on at the same time. Only problem with welding is needing to remove some insulation first but depending on what it is you can maybe get yours fingers in between the steel and lining to tear it out. If its just one or two local holes then car body filler or a steel loaded epoxy will likely patch it up for a few years. Are you planning on keeping this boat for several years?

 

...........Dave

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Thanks for your replies.

I was planning to live on it for a few years yes. I was hoping to do it up and make it my home.. and add value. 

 

The flue pipe at the top had rusted a bit. Some came off in my hand which is why its looking short. Im guessing a replacement flue might have to happen too. 

 

No problem about the insulation underneath. Ive cleared it under there looking for the bolts. Btw there were no bolts underneath. Didnt seem to be anything holding it down firmly. I could wiggle it. What are captive nuts?

 

I have someone coming on sat who i can ask to check this out. Will try not to panic til then

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38 minutes ago, SadieF said:

What are captive nuts?

Nuts that are welded in place on the underside of the roof. The benefit is you could tighten the collar bolts from the outside without having to put a spanner on the inside.

 

This wouldn't work with typical coach bolts for obvious reasons.

Edited by rusty69
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On 14/02/2019 at 13:59, SadieF said:

Btw there were no bolts underneath. Didnt seem to be anything holding it down firmly. I could wiggle it. What are captive nuts?

 

 

On 14/02/2019 at 14:35, rusty69 said:

Nuts that are welded in place on the underside of the roof. The benefit is you could tighten the collar bolts from the outside without having to put a spanner on the inside.

 

This wouldn't work with typical coach bolts for obvious reasons.

 

Note that there is an alternative to welding nuts on the underside. "Rivnuts" go in from above and crush from underneath to form a fixed interior nut when tightened. Handy to know for narrowboats where access to the other side is usually denied by the lining/insulation and you need more strength than the couple of threads tapping the thin metal of the roof will achieve.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks everyone. I did it a while back. A bit bodged but its on there. Will need to redo at some stage as only held down with mastic and the rust is quite bad on the underside. May need to cut out and weld a new patch of metal in future. Here's a pic. I have painted with red oxide around outside since this pic taken. I regret not painting it all before resealing. Oh well. 

20190326_120651.jpg

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8 hours ago, SadieF said:

I regret not painting it all before resealing. Oh well. 

The good thing about regrets like those is that it's only a matter of time until you get another chance to do it right! ;)

 

At least you're safe and dry for a while - and without bolts it it might not be ideal, but we've all seen worse bodges than that!  :)

Thanks for coming back with an update. 

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