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plainsman

Stoppage Information upstream/downstream

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The reference to upstream and downstream on CRT Stoppage site has been puzzling me for a while. As there isn't any flow on canals (exceptions I know),  does it relate to nearest lock? What about lock free canals or sections? Is it up and down in relation to big towns/cities as on railways?  Not a major issue but I would like to know.

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There is flow on all canals! Its not stagnant water.

The usual canal with locks is obvious, flow is down the nearest lock.

On lock free canals there is still a run off somewhere down stream.

Of course the flow reverses when you get to the watershed or where the reservoir feeds in, going both ways.

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1 hour ago, plainsman said:

The reference to upstream and downstream on CRT Stoppage site has been puzzling me for a while. As there isn't any flow on canals (exceptions I know),  does it relate to nearest lock? What about lock free canals or sections? Is it up and down in relation to big towns/cities as on railways?  Not a major issue but I would like to know.

If you were on the Llangollen you'd definitely know which is which!

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I have always counted upstream as uphill in the case of canals, and I think that ties in with the stoppages.  That said the winding locations quoted often seem to be wrong, or at least very conservative.

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But just to complicate things a number of canals have a summit level, so from there both directions are downstream......

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2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

But just to complicate things a number of canals have a summit level, so from there both directions are downstream......

Yes, but that doesn't cause a problem for stoppage notices - by definition the winding hole on the summit pound will be the uphill one for stoppages at either end.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If all the gates/paddles/sluices were left open, which way would the water flow ?

Through the embankment, if it's in Middlewich. :icecream:

 

 

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Interesting as the stoppage notice for Broad Street tunnel has
Up Stream Winding Hole:
Deep Cutting Junction Bridge, junction with Birmingham & Fazeley Canal
 
Down Stream Winding Hole:
Gas Street Basin
 
Perhaps upstream is that side as there is a feed from Smethwick and Edgbaston Reservoir even if they are a few miles away.

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43 minutes ago, Rob-M said:
Interesting as the stoppage notice for Broad Street tunnel has
Up Stream Winding Hole:
Deep Cutting Junction Bridge, junction with Birmingham & Fazeley Canal
 
Down Stream Winding Hole:
Gas Street Basin
 
Perhaps upstream is that side as there is a feed from Smethwick and Edgbaston Reservoir even if they are a few miles away.

That sounds right to me, Old Turn is the side that has locks above it, the locks up to the old main, so it is the upstream side.  The Gas Street basin side only has locks going down.

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10 minutes ago, john6767 said:

That sounds right to me, Old Turn is the side that has locks above it, the locks up to the old main, so it is the upstream side.  The Gas Street basin side only has locks going down.

Yes, I think it demonstrates that given a bit of thought there is probably a rational reason for selecting upstream and downstream.

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31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

CRT also have a slight problem working out where their winding holes are https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/12842/bridges-204-and-206-little-leigh-trent-and-mersey-canal

 

If they cannot 'complete a box' they are totally lost.

One of the problems of using staff with no actual waterways skills or knowledge.

 

Last year a lock was closed on the River Trent and they gave the 'winding holes' location as being at each lock 'either side' of the closed lock which were 10-15 miles away each side..

However the River was about 60-100 YARDS wide at these points. Not much need for winding holes for anything that is likely to be using the River.

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On 10/02/2019 at 13:02, Chewbacka said:

But just to complicate things a number of canals have a summit level, so from there both directions are downstream......

many have mote than one summit, they go up and down and back up like those poor men we were told about as children.

 

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And there are some (fewer?) bottom pounds where locks go up at both ends. eg where the Grand Union crosses the Ouse valley in Milton Keynes, and the Avon in Warwick, the Middle Level navigation at March.  I can't think of any others? I suppose you could count the long pound on the Bridgewater. Oh and the  Witham navigable drains, where the only way is up.

 

Any more ??

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17 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And there are some (fewer?) bottom pounds where locks go up at both ends. eg where the Grand Union crosses the Ouse valley in Milton Keynes, and the Avon in Warwick, the Middle Level navigation at March.  I can't think of any others? I suppose you could count the long pound on the Bridgewater. Oh and the  Witham navigable drains, where the only way is up.

 

Any more ??

The Monty is heading that way

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And there are some (fewer?) bottom pounds where locks go up at both ends. eg where the Grand Union crosses the Ouse valley in Milton Keynes, and the Avon in Warwick, the Middle Level navigation at March.  I can't think of any others? I suppose you could count the long pound on the Bridgewater. Oh and the  Witham navigable drains, where the only way is up.

 

Any more ??

There are other interesting locations like Braunston to Napton, were in each direction there is an up and a down.

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3 minutes ago, john6767 said:

There are other interesting locations like Braunston to Napton, were in each direction there is an up and a down.

Very nice!  So Hillmorton to Calcutt it is a summit and Braunston to Napton it is a bottom pound. Of course on that stretch you are going north and south at the same time, too...

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1 minute ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Very nice!  So Hillmorton to Calcutt it is a summit and Braunston to Napton it is a bottom pound. Of course on that stretch you are going north and south at the same time, too...

Quite, uphill and down, north and south, at the same time, confused you will be.

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On 17/02/2019 at 05:20, Scholar Gypsy said:

And there are some (fewer?) bottom pounds where locks go up at both ends. 

And some dead end pounds where the lock goes up at the other end e.g. Aylesbury and The Mont (for now).

Edited by David Mack

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