My big boat convered to electric drive

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Will take a look. I assume this is mostly about coastal and international marine, rather than inland, which is a rounding error in comparison.

It relates to all UK registered boats in UK waters but it does specifically state that Inland Waterways will come under the same legislation and that a consultation of all affected Inland Waterways parties was carried out last Winter concluding (I Think) Feb of this year.

 

●● A Call for Evidence to explore the
emissions from vessels operating
domestically within the UK, including
inland waterways. The aim of this work
is to collect a body of evidence that
will give a clearer picture of the extent
of emissions from domestic and inland
waterway vessels.

 

Have a look at section 108 re electrification.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Will take a look. I assume this is mostly about coastal and international marine, rather than inland, which is a rounding error in comparison.

 

So any suggestions on how to stop this happening?

 

The "Marine 50" document covered inland as well as coastal boating. Someone put a link up to the survey a while back and I and many others on the forum responded.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions as to how to stop the governme t running the system down rather than invest in it. 

 

Even if the number of boaters on CRT and other inland navigation authorities waters increased ten fold, the absolute number would still be relatively small and thus difficult to attract external investors to put in a charging infrastructure. 

 

Perhaps public lobbying might work but I doubt it, as the public would just see it as a few well off boaters whinging.

 

What we really need is another Robert Aickman.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions as to how to stop the governme t running the system down rather than invest in it. 

 

Even if the number of boaters on CRT and other inland navigation authorities waters increased ten fold, the absolute number would still be relatively small and thus difficult to attract external investors to put in a charging infrastructure. 

 

Perhaps public lobbying might work but I doubt it, as the public would just see it as a few well off boaters whinging.

 

Perhaps someone could persuade the government that waterways increase wellbeing and are worth funding. I might suggest it to CaRT! ?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

Even if the number of boaters on CRT and other inland navigation authorities waters increased ten fold, the absolute number would still be relatively small and thus difficult to attract external investors to put in a charging infrastructure. 

There are about 80,000 boats registered on the Inland waterways and some 250,000 leisure boats around the coast.

I have no idea how many 'commercial' boats (Trawlers, ferries etc) - excluding long distance / international container etc ships - there are, but cannot imagine it runs into many 100,000's.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes, unless the government pay for the charging infrastructure I can't see it happening. Not enough boats on the system for it to be viable for a private enterprise, unless they can charge boaters £££'s to recharge.

So how do you think this will work for cars -- which it inevitably will ? Yes it costs (a lot) of money to build the infrastructure, which has to be recouped by selling the energy at a mark-up. But this will still be a cheaper energy source than diesel; a typical narrowboat uses about 1.5l/hr of diesel when cruising (including locks) which costs about £1.40 for red diesel, or £2 for white diesel if this disappears (which it probably will). Replace this with 3kWh of electricity which costs less than 50p, or even if sold at 100% markup less than £1, which makes it half the cost. That much markup should pay for a network of charging points, maybe starting on popular rings as Jen suggested.

 

And yes boaters with diesel engines will have to pay to convert to battery power. But in any case, what is the alternative? Assuming diesels are not banned completely (e.g. for historical boats) they will be discouraged by raising taxes on fuel or boats or both, for the same reasons that they'll be pushed off the roads -- unless it's decided that diesels are OK so long as the exhaust is extremely clean, which would mean installing a modern ECU-controlled engine with catalysts and particulate filters which would cost a lot more than switching to batteries.

 

Once the world decides that fossil fuels in general and diesel engines in particular are A Bad Thing it's going to be well-nigh impossible for boaters to hold back the tide. It would be far better to start thinking now of ways to make this work for boaters (like for cars) instead of saying "it can't possibly work" or "I won't get rid of my diesel" or "I'll give up boating" -- the last one in particular would be seen as a good thing by some people because it would get all those scroungers on scruffy badly-maintained skip boats off our nice picturesque canals ?

 

As I said before, in an ideal world the government would make installing a network of charging points on the canals a condition of companies being allowed to install the (much bigger, much more lucrative) charging networks for cars, but I won't hold my breath ?

33 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I think that most boaters will baulk at the cost of a commercial electric set up, I estimate that suppliers will charge £5k upwards to install a motor and batteries. A few, like Peterboat will DIY, but the net result will be fewer people boating.

 

The government will realise the cost of installing the infrastructure and either allow boaters and other minority hobbyists to use heavily taxed carbon based fuels, or they let everyone DIY and allow the canls to decline into disuse using out the very low demand as their excuse.

Hire boats won't disappear, they'll just convert to electric. Scruffy liveaboards who make the canals look messy might disappear, which some people (not me!) might think is a plus point...

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

............….or even if sold at 100% markup less than £1, which makes it half the cost. That much markup should pay for a network of charging points, maybe starting on popular rings as Jen suggested.

I don't know if you have me on ignore, but for the umpteenth time I'll repeat.

 

THE LAW SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES SUPPLIERS SELLING ELECTRICITY TO BOATERS (MARINE CRAFT) AT A PREMIUM / ON COST TO THAT WHICH THE SUPPLIER PAYS.

 

Parliament would need to produce a new act, or amend the old act to allow for it, and in view of them 'being a bit busy for the next few years' (and saying that electrification of boats is not going to be the preferred choice) it is unlikely to happen. 

 

Research commissioned by the
Government estimates that alternative fuels
will play the most significant role in reducing
emissions from UK shipping, with electric
propulsion playing a smaller role relatively.
In particular, this research suggests that
electric propulsion options may be focused
predominantly on smaller vessels that
operate on shorter routes, such as ferry
crossings. However, these conclusions are
sensitive to several assumptions about, for
instance, the capital costs of batteries.

[cuthound]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

So how do you think this will work for cars -- which it inevitably will ? Yes it costs (a lot) of money to build the infrastructure, which has to be recouped by selling the energy at a mark-up. But this will still be a cheaper energy source than diesel; a typical narrowboat uses about 1.5l/hr of diesel when cruising (including locks) which costs about £1.40 for red diesel, or £2 for white diesel if this disappears (which it probably will). Replace this with 3kWh of electricity which costs less than 50p, or even if sold at 100% markup less than £1, which makes it half the cost. That much markup should pay for a network of charging points, maybe starting on popular rings as Jen suggested.

 

And yes boaters with diesel engines will have to pay to convert to battery power. But in any case, what is the alternative? Assuming diesels are not banned completely (e.g. for historical boats) they will be discouraged by raising taxes on fuel or boats or both, for the same reasons that they'll be pushed off the roads -- unless it's decided that diesels are OK so long as the exhaust is extremely clean, which would mean installing a modern ECU-controlled engine with catalysts and particulate filters which would cost a lot more than switching to batteries.

 

Once the world decides that fossil fuels in general and diesel engines in particular are A Bad Thing it's going to be well-nigh impossible for boaters to hold back the tide. It would be far better to start thinking now of ways to make this work for boaters (like for cars) instead of saying "it can't possibly work" or "I won't get rid of my diesel" or "I'll give up boating" -- the last one in particular would be seen as a good thing by some people because it would get all those scroungers on scruffy badly-maintained skip boats off our nice picturesque canals ?

 

As I said before, in an ideal world the government would make installing a network of charging points on the canals a condition of companies being allowed to install the (much bigger, much more lucrative) charging networks for cars, but I won't hold my breath ?

Hire boats won't disappear, they'll just convert to electric. Scruffy liveaboards who make the canals look messy might disappear, which some people (not me!) might think is a plus point...

 

Economies of scale and a larger customer base make installing the charging infrastructure more attractive to private companies, 25 million cars against perhaps 1 million inland and coastal off shore leisure boats.

 

I completely agree with your paragraph regarding the (lack of) government funding. Thst is why I think leisure boating as we know it will either and die unless the government allows boats to use highly taxed diesel.

 

Most hire companies make very little profit. Having to absorb the cost of going electric may be the final nail in the coffin for some of them. That in turn will reduce the number of potential new boaters, add I g to the decline in boater numbers.

 

Your comments regarding scruffy boaters sounds like you would support ethnic cleansing on the canals. ?

 

At the moment we need more, not fewer boaters to improve the chances of boaters influencing the proposed government changes.

Edited November 5, 2019 by cuthound
Clarification

[IanD]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Economies of scale and a larger customer base make installing the charging infrastructure more attractive to private companies, 25 million cars against perhaps 1 million inland and coastal off shore leisure boats.

 

I completely agree with your paragraph regarding the (lack of) government funding. Thst is why I think leisure boating as we know it will either and die unless the government allows boats to use highly taxed diesel.

 

Most hire companies make very little profit. Having to absorb the cost of going electric may be the final nail in the coffin for some of them. That in turn will reduce the number of potential new boaters, add I g to the decline in boater numbers.

 

Your comments regarding scruffy boaters sounds like you would support ethnic cleansing on the canals. ?

 

At the moment we need more, not fewer boaters to improve the chances of boaters influencing the proposed government changes.

There are about 30000 boats on the canals IIRC, and it was these I was talking about -- offshore boats are another problem entirely, but of course they can use sails ?

 

The economies of scale is one side of the problem, but the other side is that the total charging capacity needed for canals is maybe 10000x smaller than for cars so the cost of installation would be be negligible in comparison, even given the rural nature of some canals -- but then most canals pass through towns and villages (or past pubs) fairly regularly and these always seem to have power.

 

My comment about scruffy boaters was tongue-in-cheek, as I hoped people would realise ?

 

I do realise this could all be a big problem for boaters but it isn't going to go away. My point was that it would be far better if people put some thought and energy into finding ways to help fix the charging problem (and maybe encourage the government to do so) rather than just complaining about it or coming up with objections as to why it won't work, because the alternatives are far worse...

 

A good start would be to come up with an estimate of how many charging points with what capacity (overnight or top-up, not >100kW fast chargers) are actually needed around the system to make this work, starting from the assumption that they would be positioned where grid power is already available (towns, villages, marinas) or online moorings in/near such places. This would be a problem for people who moor in the middle of nowhere, to which the answer might be to either move to the middle of somewhere or rely on solar panels and a wind turbine ?

 

The charging points would have to support the hire boat fleets which typically use around £10-£15 of diesel per boat per day -- which I suspect is a lot more than residential boaters who don't travel so much use -- as well as CCers and boats which spend most of their time in marinas (probably the easiest problem to solve). It would be reasonable to assume around 20kWh usage per typical cruising day, which could be put back overnight from a standard 13A/3kW socket if moored next to one every night, or a 30A 3-phase (12kW) every 3 days or so (e.g. halfway through a 1 week hire) if the boat had a 70kWh battery back like a car.

 

Does anyone have any numbers for total hire boat fleet size and usage that could be used to start such an estimate? Need to think how many boats moor in popular spots on the busiest stretches of canal. IIRC these see about 6000 boat movements per year...

 

[Stilllearning]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

There are about 30000 boats on the canals IIRC, and it was these I was talking about -- offshore boats are another problem entirely, but of course they can use sails ?

 

The economies of scale is one side of the problem, but the other side is that the total charging capacity needed for canals is maybe 10000x smaller than for cars so the cost of installation would be be negligible in comparison, even given the rural nature of some canals -- but then most canals pass through towns and villages (or past pubs) fairly regularly and these always seem to have power.

 

My comment about scruffy boaters was tongue-in-cheek, as I hoped people would realise ?

 

I do realise this could all be a big problem for boaters but it isn't going to go away. My point was that it would be far better if people put some thought and energy into finding ways to help fix the charging problem (and maybe encourage the government to do so) rather than just complaining about it or coming up with objections as to why it won't work, because the alternatives are far worse...

 

A good start would be to come up with an estimate of how many charging points with what capacity (overnight or top-up, not >100kW fast chargers) are actually needed around the system to make this work, starting from the assumption that they would be positioned where grid power is already available (towns, villages, marinas) or online moorings in/near such places. This would be a problem for people who moor in the middle of nowhere, to which the answer might be to either move to the middle of somewhere or rely on solar panels and a wind turbine ?

 

The charging points would have to support the hire boat fleets which typically use around £10-£15 of diesel per boat per day -- which I suspect is a lot more than residential boaters who don't travel so much use -- as well as CCers and boats which spend most of their time in marinas (probably the easiest problem to solve). It would be reasonable to assume around 20kWh usage per typical cruising day, which could be put back overnight from a standard 13A/3kW socket if moored next to one every night, or a 30A 3-phase (12kW) every 3 days or so (e.g. halfway through a 1 week hire) if the boat had a 70kWh battery back like a car.

 

Does anyone have any numbers for total hire boat fleet size and usage that could be used to start such an estimate? Need to think how many boats moor in popular spots on the busiest stretches of canal. IIRC these see about 6000 boat movements per year...

 

I wonder what size of supply will be needed to service all the electric boats in the future in, for example, Mercia Marina?

Equally, think of any busy and popular mooring, Fradley for example, and try to estimate the costs involved there.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I wonder what size of supply will be needed to service all the electric boats in the future in, for example, Mercia Marina?

Equally, think of any busy and popular mooring, Fradley for example, and try to estimate the costs involved there.

You have to think not just of the number of boats but how much energy they use -- a cruising boat will on average use more than a moored residential one, which while moored won't use any more energy than they do today. It's the extra energy required for propulsion that we need to consider, which means also thinking about how much travelling boats actually do. This is why I suspect hire boats are the biggest issue, because they tend to travel a lot more per day on average than liveaboards. But then the hire fleets have more money to play with and replace their boats more often so switching to electric would probably be easier for them...

 

If we assume (just for the sake of argument) that half the boats are in marinas and already have at least a 13A supply, we're already half-way there to having enough charging capacity for electric propulsion (even if it's not in the right places) and this seems to have been done without bankrupting the canals or boaters... ?

Edited November 5, 2019 by IanD

[Stilllearning]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

You have to think not just of the number of boats but how much energy they use -- a cruising boat will on average use more than a moored residential one, which while moored won't use any more energy than they do today.

Indeed that is clearly the case. Equally, in an all electrical scenario, any boat popping out for a short trip will need to recharge on return. 

My thoughts on this subject are all part of my concern about electricity usage now, and in the future. There are, every year, more and more items that exist in a stand by mode, thus increasing the demand for generating capacity. This is something that was discussed back in the early 90s, when I worked for UK2000, and it worried us all back then. It is far more critical now.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Wow, that was fast! An answer from the Broads Authority. They sell £1 cards, which give 6.66kWhr, so one kWhr costs 15p. That is about the typical cost for a domestic supply from the main suppliers, so it looks like the Broads are selling it at cost and not using it to recoup the cost of the bollards.

Jen

Thats not bad my electric broads cruiser would do a day for one pound! it hardly uses any amps to drive it

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Indeed that is clearly the case. Equally, in an all electrical scenario, any boat popping out for a short trip will need to recharge on return. 

My thoughts on this subject are all part of my concern about electricity usage now, and in the future. There are, every year, more and more items that exist in a stand by mode, thus increasing the demand for generating capacity. This is something that was discussed back in the early 90s, when I worked for UK2000, and it worried us all back then. It is far more critical now.

Absolutely true -- but the energy supply/distribution problem is 10000x bigger for cars, so let them worry about this and how to solve it -- we just have to worry about how to get all this wonderful power to boats ?

 

[and like cars, the boat doesn't have to recharge in a hurry on return, only more slowly before next time it goes out, which is fine if it's in a marina]

Edited November 5, 2019 by IanD

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I think that most boaters will baulk at the cost of a commercial electric set up, I estimate that suppliers will charge £5k upwards to install a motor and batteries. A few, like Peterboat will DIY, but the net result will be fewer people boating.

 

The government will realise the cost of installing the infrastructure and either allow boaters and other minority hobbyists to use heavily taxed carbon based fuels, or they let everyone DIY and allow the canls to decline into disuse using out the very low demand as their excuse.

I read this and was very sad I dont want to be one of the few users left on a very quiet system, I think more will do what I have done, yes I am an engineer to trade, but plenty of others are very capable of replicating my system. Fingers crossed that it happens

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Absolutely true -- but the energy supply/distribution problem is 10000x bigger for cars, so let them worry about this and how to solve it -- we just have to worry about how to get all this wonderful power to boats ?

 

[and like cars, the boat doesn't have to recharge in a hurry on return, only more slowly before next time it goes out, which is fine if it's in a marina]

In a lot of cases solar would top it up when the boat was stood doing nowt

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Thats not bad my electric broads cruiser would do a day for one pound! it hardly uses any amps to drive it

I reckon a narrowboat would use around 3kW at normal speed, so probably average around 2kW or less including passing moored boats slowly (1kW) and waiting at locks (0kW) -- 20kWh per full day cruising is therefore pretty generous, which would cost about £3/day at the rates you quote, which is less than a quarter the cost of diesel (I usually get through about £90 of fuel in a week's hire).

 

No doubt that the fuel cost is very low with electric, the issues today are the installation cost (especially batteries) and the charging network.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I read this and was very sad I dont want to be one of the few users left on a very quiet system, I think more will do what I have done, yes I am an engineer to trade, but plenty of others are very capable of replicating my system. Fingers crossed that it happens

In a lot of cases solar would top it up when the boat was stood doing nowt

I think the doomsayers are being way too pessimistic, the problem is nothing like as expensive and difficult to solve as they think -- some people may leave the canals but I suspect the hire boat sector will thrive. Just think how peaceful it'll be without all those nasty noisy smoky diesel engines ruining the peace, just like the old days with horses but without the sh*t... ?

 

[but still the occasional Bolinder, obviously]

 

Even with a big narrowboat setup (say 6 1.5m2 panels = 1.5kW peak) solar will only deliver about 5kWh per day which is about a quarter of the cruising consumption. You've got a much bigger area wideboat with more solar (2x?) and spend a lot less time travelling (2x?) so it makes a much bigger contribution for you.

 

Still, every little helps ?

Edited November 5, 2019 by IanD

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

I reckon a narrowboat would use around 3kW at normal speed, so probably average around 2kW or less including passing moored boats slowly (1kW) and waiting at locks (0kW) -- 20kWh per full day cruising is therefore pretty generous, which would cost about £3/day at the rates you quote, which is less than a quarter the cost of diesel (I usually get through about £90 of fuel in a week's hire).

 

No doubt that the fuel cost is very low with electric, the issues today are the installation cost (especially batteries) and the charging network.

My widebeam is 3.3KWHs at 3 MPH but thats in deep water, so in shallow canals you would be right for narrowboats, this is doable its just getting people to realise its either this or nowt which will be the problem.

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

I think the doomsayers are being way too pessimistic, the problem is nothing like as expensive and difficult to solve as they think -- some people may leave the canals but I suspect the hire boat sector will thrive. Just think how peaceful it'll be without all those nasty noisy smoky diesel engines ruining the peace, just like the old days with horses but without the sh*t... ?

 

[but still the occasional Bolinder, obviously]

 

Even with a big narrowboat setup (say 6 1.5m2 panels = 1.5kW peak) solar will only deliver about 5kWh per day which is about a quarter of the cruising consumption. You've got a much bigger area wideboat with more solar (2x?) and spend a lot less time travelling (2x?) so it makes a much bigger contribution for you.

 

Still, every little helps ?

3 times as much solar Ian I have another 900 watts of solar to add next year to make it 4.6KW all switchable to drive

[Jen-in-Wellies]

57 minutes ago, IanD said:

A good start would be to come up with an estimate of how many charging points with what capacity (overnight or top-up, not >100kW fast chargers) are actually needed around the system to make this work, starting from the assumption that they would be positioned where grid power is already available (towns, villages, marinas) or online moorings in/near such places.

Some locks are instrumented to count the number of times it is cycled, with a level gauge in the chamber. It is collected as part of their scada monitoring of water use. This would be a good proxy for estimating the number of boat journeys along a stretch, especially for narrow canals. Summary data for 2018 here. The top four are N Oxford Hillmorton, Llangollen New Marton, T&M Colwich, T&M Woodend and S&W Tixall, with between 8,600 and 6800 lock operations. Not all operations will have a boat as some will be to set it if it is against a boat. The boat movement checkers data would give a good idea on the travels of cruising private boats. Propulsion charging needs would be based on the numbers of boats passing along the canal in peak season, their power consumption, charge time and battery capacity. This would then need to be set against availability of nearby grid power.

The data is already there with CaRT to do this.

 

Jen

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

There are about 30000 boats on the canals IIRC, and it was these I was talking about -- offshore boats are another problem entirely, but of course they can use sails

C&RT have about 30,000 boats registered.

There are actually something over 88,000 boats registered on the Inland Waterways in 2008 and I cannot imagine the figure has reduced.

 

The Big players are :

 

C&RT = 32000 +

EA = 24000

lake District = 5500

Lock Lomond = 5000

Broads = 12600

 

 

1 hour ago, IanD said:

offshore boats are another problem entirely, but of course they can use sails

Not sure that would work on Ferries, Fishing Trawlers and 'motor boats'.

Where would you suggest I mount a mast on mine ?

 

 

[IanD]

44 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Some locks are instrumented to count the number of times it is cycled, with a level gauge in the chamber. It is collected as part of their scada monitoring of water use. This would be a good proxy for estimating the number of boat journeys along a stretch, especially for narrow canals. Summary data for 2018 here. The top four are N Oxford Hillmorton, Llangollen New Marton, T&M Colwich, T&M Woodend and S&W Tixall, with between 8,600 and 6800 lock operations. Not all operations will have a boat as some will be to set it if it is against a boat. The boat movement checkers data would give a good idea on the travels of cruising private boats. Propulsion charging needs would be based on the numbers of boats passing along the canal in peak season, their power consumption, charge time and battery capacity. This would then need to be set against availability of nearby grid power.

The data is already there with CaRT to do this.

 

Jen

So in theory if somebody could get hold of the numbers from CART and crunch them we might be able work out the energy usage of each stretch of canal, so long as we can tell which are "used" locks (with a boat) and which are "unused" (no boat) -- but I think we also need to know which boats stop and/or turn round which there is no data on ?

 

But just for a laugh, take the highest number (8600 lock operations per year) and assume that 25% are boatless, giving 6500 with boats. This averages out at 18 boats per day but this will be zero in winter and at least double this in summer, say 36 per day or about 4 per hour on average. If they travel 18 miles per day each (plus locks) then each 18 mile stretch of canal has to recharge 36 boats each night with 20kWh, which is 40kWh per mile of canal per night. Based on what I worked out before this would need a 3kW/13A charge point every half a mile on average (which will put 20kW back overnight) or a 12kW/30A/3phase one (charge twice a week) every two miles, which doesn't seem like a lot.

 

Yes I know these are averages and the charge points wouldn't be evenly spread (they'd be concentrated in popular mooring locations -- which tends to mean next to power grid access), but bear in mind that a 12kW/3phase point will only charge one car overnight and the country will need millions of these. It suggests that the power requirement of even a popular mooring spot on the canals will be similar to a small street of houses with electric cars, which the entire automotive industry is assuming is a problem which will be solved.

 

This really doesn't look like an insuperable problem to me...

[MtB]

5 hours ago, peterboat said:

Even as we are posting another wind turbine will be coming on line,

 

It all seems a bit daft to put up a big wind turbine to generate electricity to charge the propulsion batteries in a boat.

 

It would be clever and more efficient to use the wind directly. Put up big panels to catch the wind which pushes the boat along directly. 

 

I'm surprised no-one has thought of this before.....

 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

But just for a laugh, take the highest number (8600 lock operations per year) and assume that 25% are boatless, giving 6500 with boats. This averages out at 18 boats per day but this will be zero in winter and at least double this in summer, say 36 per day or about 4 per hour on average. If they travel 18 miles per day each (plus locks) then each 18 mile stretch of canal has to recharge 36 boats each night with 20kWh, which is 40kWh per mile of canal per night. Based on what I worked out before this would need a 3kW/13A charge point every half a mile on average (which will put 20kW back overnight) or a 12kW/30A/3phase one (charge twice a week) every two miles, which doesn't seem like a lot.

And this is with the boat fleet fully converted to electric* in perhaps a couple of decades time. The investment can be made incrementally as the number of electric boats increases, once a minimum number exist to allow a boat to cruise, say one charging point every fifteen to twenty miles. Once that is there, then you add more to cope with the electric boat traffic as it rises. Just keep track of the number of fist fights and boat rammings at popular charging sites. Signs that you need to add more!

This is why I suggested popular hire routes as a good starting point. There is little difference in cost for a hire company to build a new boat as a battery electric, or as a diesel. Once built, the boat will have a much lower running cost They have a regular turnover of boats that are then sold on as they reach a certain age. Provide them with enough bollards that their hirers can travel and you have the beginnings of a waterways electric charging network that can be expanded as the numbers increase.

 

*In 20 years time there will be a few people running vintage Beta 43's on chip fat. ?

 

Jen

[Dr Bob]

16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It all seems a bit daft to put up a big wind turbine to generate electricity to charge the propulsion batteries in a boat.

 

It would be clever and more efficient to use the wind directly. Put up big panels to catch the wind which pushes the boat along directly. 

 

I'm surprised no-one has thought of this before.....

 

 

 

There would have to be a gap in the pole holding the panels up to go past the bridges. It would have to be a variable gap as bridges vary so much in height.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT have about 30,000 boats registered.

There are actually something over 88,000 boats registered on the Inland Waterways in 2008 and I cannot imagine the figure has reduced.

 

The Big players are :

 

C&RT = 32000 +

EA = 24000

lake District = 5500

Lock Lomond = 5000

Broads = 12600

 

 

Not sure that would work on Ferries, Fishing Trawlers and 'motor boats'.

Where would you suggest I mount a mast on mine ?

 

 

Already electric ferries Alan I watched a video of one last month